Author Topic: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder  (Read 265043 times)

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Masters

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #900 on: March 17, 2007, 01:46:22 PM »
There is no secrecy....she is acknowledged by the Russian Orthodox Church as Michaels Great Granddaughter. They were the ones who had held Nicolina's inheritance in trust and upon Nicolina's death, she inherited what was left, which for the sake of modesty and from what I know her to have, had to have been quite a hefty sum.  When this transpired, she made it very clear that she had no further interest in being involved the feeding frenzy that has been going on since her Grandmother was a child.

She loved her Grandmother very much and was very proud of whom she was and all  she went through to survive and become the lovely woman she was. 

But as far as the rest of them (and I say them because most of them have no proof) are concerned....to put it bluntly...she thinks their behavior embarrassing and is sickened whenever the thought crosses her mind.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #901 on: March 17, 2007, 02:04:41 PM »
May I ask what the reason is/was for thie secrecy of this claim?

Maybe she wants to avoid the papparazzi (sp?)...

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #902 on: March 17, 2007, 05:49:58 PM »
Masters,

I can only assume that you are telling us  true stories  about your friend because I have no reason to doubt you. 

So,  since I am assuming what you've told us is true,  I am enjoying the story of your friend and find her attitude interesting.

The doubting-thomases   around here are leary of people who make claims  because they've had bad experiences with some real pranks who have landed  in this forum  from time to time.  And,  we've truely have had some interesting characters come and go since I've been around the last few years.  Even though this may explain their mocking tones toward your post and what you claim about your friend, I do not agree with their  tactics.   I'm sorry to say,  I  think  this is a no win coversation for you because they will not  stop  these abuses until they see proof and I don't think that is your intent.    Because, it appears to me that you were merely telling us a story about your friend and wanted to share it with others.   



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« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 06:08:37 PM by AGRBear »
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Masters

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #903 on: March 17, 2007, 09:40:36 PM »
Dear AGRBear:

I thank you for your kindness and heads-up regarding the "pack"....it is beyond me to think that the people who talk on this forum warrant any proof, as they are just neophytes when it comes to the Russian Church and the political influence it has had over the centuries.

Please understand that my information is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a story,  I have seen the pictures and papers and the jewels first hand which has proven everything she has ever told me.  I have to say though, that she never told me anything with an attitude of superiority, but more with a sense of humility.  She truly has the grace a descendant of a family so noble would possess.

She once told me a story her Grandmother told her, of how she, her mother, step sister and little brother had escaped the fate that befell the rest of the family.  As she told me what her grandmother described to her, she would cry at her bravery and at the same time, you could see an underlying pride in her eyes.

She told me that once they stood holding hands in her Grandmother's living room looking out over a newly fallen snow.  Although, she said it was beautiful, it made her Grandmother cry.  She said the next morning she woke to find her Grandmother in her usual routine, making the bread she had seen her make many times before.

She saw her Grandmother cross herself and kneel before the table as usual, but that when she started to knead the bread, she all of a sudden started to beat it with an anger she had never seen before and it frightened her.  When she called to her, her Grandmother didn't answer at first but then realizing she was there, stopped pounding the table of dough, keeled again in front of the table and embraced her. 

She told me her Grandmother held her so tight, she thought she would never let go, but instead she rocked my friend in her lap and told her how lucky she was that she would never have to face the horrors she went through and how happy she was to be her Grandma.

My friend said that her Grandmother didn't tell her then but years later when she was older and could understand, just what the four of them went through, when they fled and the nightmares her mother (Natalia) would have and the horror and fear she would see in her eyes when she awoke.  She said she would scream in her sleep and wake up shaking and rock in her bed, or what was used for a bed.  And that all the while telling the tale, she said her Grandmother always had this far off look in her eyes, as though she was re-living those things all over again.

I was always of the opinion that these were not stories at all, as when they were told to me, they included such detail as to warrant merit in their telling.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 09:45:29 PM by Masters »

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #904 on: March 19, 2007, 04:07:27 PM »
It is in these sstories that we learn the horror and ugliness endured under the Bolsheviks/ communists.

These stories should be told and retold so the new generations can understand what happens when a country gives in to people who's  quest is to gain absolute power and have no intentions of having a government for the people and by the people.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #905 on: March 19, 2007, 04:39:43 PM »
Bear?

You believe in the Easter Bunny, don't you?

And did I miss the moment where Tsarist Russia was on the verge of dedicating itself to the ideals of Abraham Lincoln?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 04:44:26 PM by Louis_Charles »
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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #906 on: March 19, 2007, 04:42:19 PM »
It is in these sstories that we learn the horror and ugliness endured under the Bolsheviks/ communists.

These stories should be told and retold so the new generations can understand what happens when a country gives in to people who's  quest is to gain absolute power and have no intentions of having a government for the people and by the people.

AGRBear

Oh AGRBear you are so right.  Stuff should just be told over and over and over and over.  It really makes people pay attention to what you are saying.  Sometimes it helps to say it right after you already said it.

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #907 on: March 19, 2007, 04:43:08 PM »
It is in these sstories that we learn the horror and ugliness endured under the Bolsheviks/ communists.

These stories should be told and retold so the new generations can understand what happens when a country gives in to people who's  quest is to gain absolute power and have no intentions of having a government for the people and by the people.

AGRBear

Oh AGRBear you are so right.  Stuff should just be told over and over and over and over.  It really makes people pay attention to what you are saying.  Sometimes it helps to say it right after you already said it.

Binky, just for you.
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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #908 on: March 19, 2007, 04:46:51 PM »
It is in these sstories that we learn the horror and ugliness endured under the Bolsheviks/ communists.

These stories should be told and retold so the new generations can understand what happens when a country gives in to people who's  quest is to gain absolute power and have no intentions of having a government for the people and by the people.

AGRBear

Oh AGRBear you are so right.  Stuff should just be told over and over and over and over.  It really makes people pay attention to what you are saying.  Sometimes it helps to say it right after you already said it.

Binky, just for you.

Thanks Mr. Charles. I just learned how to use the quote thing today and it makes it a whole lot easier to say stuff over.

Offline RichC

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #909 on: March 19, 2007, 05:04:18 PM »
For AGRBear and Binky!

The same stories should be told and retold constantly.


Dear AGRBear:

I thank you for your kindness and heads-up regarding the "pack"....it is beyond me to think that the people who talk on this forum warrant any proof, as they are just neophytes when it comes to the Russian Church and the political influence it has had over the centuries.

Please understand that my information is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a story,  I have seen the pictures and papers and the jewels first hand which has proven everything she has ever told me.  I have to say though, that she never told me anything with an attitude of superiority, but more with a sense of humility.  She truly has the grace a descendant of a family so noble would possess.

She once told me a story her Grandmother told her, of how she, her mother, step sister and little brother had escaped the fate that befell the rest of the family.  As she told me what her grandmother described to her, she would cry at her bravery and at the same time, you could see an underlying pride in her eyes.

She told me that once they stood holding hands in her Grandmother's living room looking out over a newly fallen snow.  Although, she said it was beautiful, it made her Grandmother cry.  She said the next morning she woke to find her Grandmother in her usual routine, making the bread she had seen her make many times before.

She saw her Grandmother cross herself and kneel before the table as usual, but that when she started to knead the bread, she all of a sudden started to beat it with an anger she had never seen before and it frightened her.  When she called to her, her Grandmother didn't answer at first but then realizing she was there, stopped pounding the table of dough, keeled again in front of the table and embraced her. 

She told me her Grandmother held her so tight, she thought she would never let go, but instead she rocked my friend in her lap and told her how lucky she was that she would never have to face the horrors she went through and how happy she was to be her Grandma.

My friend said that her Grandmother didn't tell her then but years later when she was older and could understand, just what the four of them went through, when they fled and the nightmares her mother (Natalia) would have and the horror and fear she would see in her eyes when she awoke.  She said she would scream in her sleep and wake up shaking and rock in her bed, or what was used for a bed.  And that all the while telling the tale, she said her Grandmother always had this far off look in her eyes, as though she was re-living those things all over again.

I was always of the opinion that these were not stories at all, as when they were told to me, they included such detail as to warrant merit in their telling.


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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #910 on: March 19, 2007, 05:13:30 PM »
For AGRBear and Binky!

The same stories should be told and retold constantly.


Dear AGRBear:

I thank you for your kindness and heads-up regarding the "pack"....it is beyond me to think that the people who talk on this forum warrant any proof, as they are just neophytes when it comes to the Russian Church and the political influence it has had over the centuries.

Please understand that my information is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a story,  I have seen the pictures and papers and the jewels first hand which has proven everything she has ever told me.  I have to say though, that she never told me anything with an attitude of superiority, but more with a sense of humility.  She truly has the grace a descendant of a family so noble would possess.

She once told me a story her Grandmother told her, of how she, her mother, step sister and little brother had escaped the fate that befell the rest of the family.  As she told me what her grandmother described to her, she would cry at her bravery and at the same time, you could see an underlying pride in her eyes.

She told me that once they stood holding hands in her Grandmother's living room looking out over a newly fallen snow.  Although, she said it was beautiful, it made her Grandmother cry.  She said the next morning she woke to find her Grandmother in her usual routine, making the bread she had seen her make many times before.

She saw her Grandmother cross herself and kneel before the table as usual, but that when she started to knead the bread, she all of a sudden started to beat it with an anger she had never seen before and it frightened her.  When she called to her, her Grandmother didn't answer at first but then realizing she was there, stopped pounding the table of dough, keeled again in front of the table and embraced her. 

She told me her Grandmother held her so tight, she thought she would never let go, but instead she rocked my friend in her lap and told her how lucky she was that she would never have to face the horrors she went through and how happy she was to be her Grandma.

My friend said that her Grandmother didn't tell her then but years later when she was older and could understand, just what the four of them went through, when they fled and the nightmares her mother (Natalia) would have and the horror and fear she would see in her eyes when she awoke.  She said she would scream in her sleep and wake up shaking and rock in her bed, or what was used for a bed.  And that all the while telling the tale, she said her Grandmother always had this far off look in her eyes, as though she was re-living those things all over again.

I was always of the opinion that these were not stories at all, as when they were told to me, they included such detail as to warrant merit in their telling.



Absolutely!

It has always baffeled me that all these supposed survivors and decendants keep fighting over who is or is not truly in line for a throne that has not existed for almost 100 years.  I attended Oxford University with Michael Romanov's Great Grand Daughter and she never once mentioned that she was involved in all this mayhem.

I will not reveal her name for her privacy, but she "is" a true direct decendant.  When we were at Oxford together, as she used to show me pictures of her Grandmother with her parents Michael and Natalia.  And pictures of her and her Grandmother and the rest of the family.  She also showed me the Order of Saint Catherine that Her Great Grand Mother received when she was Baptized and then gave it to her when she Baptized in the Russian Orthodox Church.

It is my understanding that only true Romanov female decendants were given this Medal at the time of their Baptism.  If this is true, then I guess my question is, why all the fighting from the under-relatives when there is still a direct family member still alive?

Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #911 on: March 19, 2007, 09:17:51 PM »
I've been trying to figure out where this woman fits in the story of Michael and Natasha -- but she seems not to fit anywhere.  Off the top of my head -- so my dates might be slightly wrong -- Natasha and Michael met in 1908.  Their son George was born in 1910, and his birth was not hidden or otherwise shrouded in secrecy.  Masters mentioned that George was Nicolina's "little brother," which means Nicolina would had to have been born sometime in the year-and-a-half or two years between M&N meeting and George's birth.  I haven't had time to consult the Crawford's book, but perhaps someone could -- and let us know what M&N were up to in those years?

I do believe that Nicholas and Michael remained on good terms until the time of M&N's marriage, which was in 1912.  I suppose their relationship may have been strained because of Michael's affair with the wife of a brother officer and all the attendant scandal -- but there really seems to have been no serious breach until 1912, and so no need to name "Nicolina" to please NII. 

Also -- by the time Countess Brassova died, she was terribly, terribly impoverished.  REALLY poor.  There could have been no legacy of any size left for anyone anywhere.

Now, Natasha's daughter from her first marriage, Tata Mamontov, married (I think) three times.  She had two daughters only: Pauline Grey and Alexandra Majolier.  George Brassov, of course, died tragically young in a motoring accident in France in 1931.  Nothing about this family seems to have been hidden or secreted away -- so why was the existence of this "Nicolina" hidden?

I'd really like to hear more about the story, but its veracity seems unlikely at this point.  Perhaps a letter to the Grey/Majolier connections would answer some of these questions and clarify this situation for you, Masters.

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #912 on: March 20, 2007, 02:41:47 AM »
Dear Penny:

The jewels and inheritance came from her father, Michael and were left entrusted to the Russian Orthodox Church. 

It was not something Natalia was able to have access to.  Remember the Tikhon himself was the family priest and was entrusted with Nicolina's well being. 

Michael is the one that had directed Natalia to leave Nicolina behind at the Monastery.  As it was told to me, Michael and Natalia were allowed to see each other, one last time, before they let her go.  Now whether the information/arrangements Michael made with the Tikhon, were imparted to Natalia on that last fateful night or before they were imprisoned, is beyond my knowledge. 

I only know bits and pieces of the entire story, from what I was told by my friend.  And I truly do not believe that she or her Grandmother ever knew the whole story of what happened to everyone else either, and they are the ones who lived it.

In the same way that you and I do not know the day to day events in the lives of our own families, all relatives considered.

What Natalia did after she left Nicolina behind, is not something she ever knew about and ending up in the condition she did upon her death is a dreadful shame, but again, it has nothing to do with Nicolina or her fortune, which was passed on to my friend, upon her Grandmother's death.

Masters

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #913 on: March 20, 2007, 02:49:18 AM »
In addition Penny, you all must realized that the dates we have been fed from day one, even unto the actual deaths of the Tsar and his family has changed almost day to day.  In every country including America, we are fed and you will excuse the expression, a "pile" of bologna when it comes to dates and times and who did what to whom.  Perfect example is the death of Geroge Washington.

It was not taught in the schools or in many history books, but the fact that Georgie biy died in bed with a whore in a brothel, is not something the government likes to have out there as public knowledge, so it is very hard for me to believe all the "exact dates" that have been put out there.  Again, we are talking almost 100 years ago.  I wasn't there, and I know that one else that is alive today was there either!  SO how can any of us truly be sure.

Just food for thought...

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Re: Stories of Survivors of Ipatiev House Murder
« Reply #914 on: March 20, 2007, 05:58:25 AM »
Youre' so right Masters.  I think almost everything in history is made up by people who have this really big conspiracy to fool us.  I'm glad there are people like you who know the truth and will tell it to us though because we wouldn't know what really happened.  You could get really famous with everything you know so I think you should write some books.