fake/spurious "Faberge" and "Imperial" items

[grandduchessella]

This issue came up on the Windsor thread when I posted an item which I thought had belonged to Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna--this is what the Ebay seller claimed. The authenticity of the item was challenged, rightly, by Eddieboy and the FA added some interesting observations about this seller in particular and the issue of faux Romanov/Imperial items that come up for sale.

This was the brooch in question:



It was described as being solid gold with high-quality diamonds and platinum and onyx decorations.

Not being any kind of expert at all in the field of antiques or jewelry, I was taken by it. I didn't think it looked great but I've thought that about many items that turn out to be high-quality so much taste barometer obviously isn't reliable. 

Hopefully the FA and others will contribute to this discussion.

[Robert_Hall]

Just from the photograh I would deny the authenticity of this piece.  One telling siign right off is the quality. It is not Faberge standard. The gold "rope" would be coiled and then applied to the base.
 The eagles heads are a deffinite give-away. They do not match and are downright sloppy.  The eagles should be mirror images, and they would be if this were a real piece of Faberge. Even "cheap" Faberge pieces were perfect.

[Forum Admin]

First, understand that 99.99% of what is claimed to be Faberge on ebay is NOT genuine. I have seen less than three genuine Faberge items on ebay in the last six months. Two were from well known and reliable dealers, the third was a knife handle with a later and bad new blade put on it.

The brooch: As Robert said, the quality is awful.  Another dead giveaway in addition to what he already said are the obvious hooks holding the stone to the frame. Faberge never would have left them visible. The back side is ragged, unfinished and the pin is flimsy. the box is wrong.
Faberge pieces are always virtually flawless in design and execution. If you see an obvious hinge, unfinished edge, sloppy balance, etc. run away!  Even if the stones are real and the gold/silver genuine, that is not enough.

This Bulgarian dealer, "MilitaryaBG",  sells NOTHING but fakes. Each one with an alleged Imperial provenance. Sadly, each one is a total fabrication. Now some pieces are "real" russian antiques of mediocre quality, with eagles slapped on and some "royal" provenance cobbled up.
Here is a "howler" from one of his postings "AND ONLY 5% WAS MADE PERSONALY BY CARL FABERGE. THIS IS THE FIRST ITEM THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN ALIVE THAT WAS MADE BY THE HANDS OF THE GLOURIOUS MASTER!"
Actually, ZERO % was "made personally" by Carl Faberge after about 1872.  Faberge was a designer, and excellent manager, but never produced a single item himself.

Dates: Check date marks carefully. For example, The piece this Bulgarian fraud has listed now says: !!!AN ANTIQUE IMPERIAL RUSSIAN SOLID HEAVY SILVER&SAPPHIRES PRESENTATION FISH SERVING SET "SEA MONSTER" BY CARL FABERGE!!! IT HAS BEEN ORDERED BY HES MAJESTY ALEXANDER II OF RUSSIA,AND CARL FABERGE PERSONALY MADE IT FOR HEM!!!
The photos show a Moscow city stamp, and assay master BC over 1872, then "84" and "K.. Faberge" in cyrillic with the double headed eagle indicating Imperial Warrant status.

Now, the Moscow mark and Assay Master check out fine. Victor Savinkov was the Moscow assay master during the period. The problem here is this: THERE WAS NO MOSCOW BRANCH OF FABERGE IN 1872! In 1872, Carl Faberge had just returned to Petersburg and went into the family jewelery business with his brother Agathon.  The next "problem" is that Alexander II never ordered anything from them. The Imperial warrant didn't come until Alexander III gave it to him for the first Easter Egg in 1885.

So what can we conclude from just this one listing? The fish service is probably a real decent piece from Moscow 1872.  this Bulgarian charlatan added the fake Faberge stamp and a fake box with bogus Alexander II cypher to pass it off. This is typical.

Another spurious dealer is "margo222425", real name Rita Moshel. check out her alleged "Faberge" clock, item 330062924716. Looks pretty good huh? Decent enamel work and guilloche, mine cut diamonds... Notice the little "crown" though on top. doesn't belong there, was added to "hint" at being "Imperial". Look at the dial. Says faberge right there doesn't it? WRONG! First, genuine Faberge clocks are scarcer then hen's teeth, they made very few. NOT ONE ever had "Faberge" on the dial face. Faberge NEVER would have done that and never did. third problem, check out the hallmarks. Look right, BUT, we have a typical mistake these forgers make. They have the Moscow city hallmark with a St Petersburg city Assay Master stamp. oops.....I actually contacted this seller and told her it was a fake and expained why. She insisted its real, and never changed the listing.
ANY REAL DEALER OF FABERGE WILL ALWAYS GUARANTEE AUTHENCITITY IN WRITING. ALWAYS. if they say "is on consignment so I cant" or some other lame excuse...ts fake...

Also, look at alot of the pricing of these lowlifes. You will see "buy it now" for $5,000. Seems like a lot of money,right? Well check the recent Christies London Sale of November 2006, and see what prices GENUINE Imperial Faberge fetches. A real Nicholas II presentation Faberge cigarette case sold for a half million US Dollars!  They price things low enough that they seem a "bargain" but just high enough to seem "expensive".

Trust me, there are no Faberge bargains on ebay.

[Eddie_uk]

Thank you Courtney.

I just hope no one buys it thinking it's genuine. It really is ghastly.

[Robert_Hall]

Frankly, imo, anyone who has that kind of money to put down for what is basically- costume- deserves what they get.
 There are quality reproductions- NOT fakes, available if one wants something decent. The real stuff would not normally be sold on Ebay, of all places.

[Ortino]

What about the stuff sold on websites such as RomanovRussia.com or Russian-Antique.com? Most of stuff on the websites is several thousand dollars at least. One "faberge" piece on RomanovRussia.com has a price of $65,000. These certainly are better and more appropriate prices than the ones listed on Ebay, but are they real Imperial items or are these websites simply charging ridiculous prices for fakes? Browsing through them I couldn't help but wonder.

[Ortino]

In particular, is this real? I'm not sure what to make of the price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Russian-Nicholas-II-Coronation-Glass-1896_W0QQitemZ270084105624QQihZ017QQcategoryZ63545QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Forum Admin]

Romanov Russia and Russian-Antique are both reputable dealers, as far as I know.  If you read their websites, both offer unconditional money back guarantees for authenticity. I have bought several items from Russian Antique myself.  Any reputable dealer will always offer such a guarantee. If they won't, or tell you is on "consignment", run for the hills.

Now, that said, even the best dealers sometimes make mistakes. there IS a very true story about a fRussian antiques dealer with an impeccible reputation at a museum exhibition of Faberge.  The dealer was talking to a collector, and the collector pointed out a Faberge clock the collector has loaned to the exhibit. The dealer said, "you know, that clock is a fake." Collector said, "Oh, no I'm certain its genuine Faberge".  Dealer says "No, its a fake,  these aren't in the Faberge archives, its not real." Collector says "No, I'm very certain its genuine, you see, I bought it from YOU eight years ago..."  Dealer refunded the money....

[ashdean]

Seem to remember reading that Kentuckian Countess Mona Bismark when married to her previous husband the billionaire Harrison Williams had a large collection of Faberge flowers in her bedroom & animal studies in her bathroom...In later years it turned out that they were all fake..the couple had been duped !!!!!

[Scott]

RomanovRussia.com is owned / run by a fellow named Dmitry Alexandrov in Chicago.  I have met him personally several times and have bought from him for more than ten years.  Everything has always been as described.

[Forum Admin]

RomanovRussia.com is owned / run by a fellow named Dmitry Alexandrov in Chicago.  I have met him personally several times and have bought from him for more than ten years.  Everything has always been as described.

We can say the same for Lev at Russian-Antique in New York as well.  A La Veille Russie in NYC is also an impeccible source. Sadly, the prices for these genuine items has skyrocketed to insane levels in the last few years as the Noviya Russikye are buying back their patrimony at top dollar/Euro prices...I don't see how anyone can start collecting Russian antiques these days without a genuine fortune behind them.

[slaudio]

I've had very favorable dealings with John Atzbach (www.atzbach.com).  He's helped me acquire some very good pieces, and has always been honest and straightforward.  Also, a very good discussion of fake Faberge and the ebay problems can be found at www.kfaberge.com.

[Jacknett]

The clock, cigar case, box and letter opener offered by Rita Moshel may well be fakes, however they are attractive nevertheless. Can anyone suggest what they might be worth, given that they are not Faberge?

[Eddie_uk]

I guess they are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them jacknett  They are not likely to increase in value, unlike the real thing!

[nexttsar]

I would also agree that John Atzbach is both a reputable dealer and an all around nice person. I have seen his fine selection of genuine Faberge articles. I have purchased (non-Faberge) items from him, and found the transaction to be wholly satisfactory.

That said, one can only look at the prices original Russian Orders and Decorations, badges, jettons and quality antiques are bringing now versus just a year or two ago. There is BIG money looking for this material, and they are taking it back to Russia.