A List - Claimant's Name/History/Fate

[AGRBear]

Something on the GD Maria claimant in South Africa:

Don't know if this is the right place to post this, but here goes.  In Britain, on National Geographic (a satellite/cable channel) on 20 December they're showing "In Search of A Princess", which tells the story of a woman who lived in South Africa for many years and claimed to be the Grand Duchess Marie.  Show time's about 9pm if I remember correctly.  Just thought the British contingent who get TELEWEST might want to have a look and see what they think.

[AGRBear]

At the risk of going round an old loop for members I'm afraid Occleshaw's book does not bear serious examination.  A few points:

1/  Occleshaw has "Tatiana" flown out of Ekaterinberg by the British.  He doesn't explain how any aircraft got there or how it managed to then fly her to Vladivostok.  I have spoken at some length on this subject with the former editor of "Cross & Cockade International" and we are agreed there was no aircraft at the time could have feasibly done this.

2/ Occleshaw claims that records of the RAF contingent in North Russia 1918 (where he assumes the aircraft came from) are not released into the National Archive AIR1 papers and claims to have information they never will be.  He is correct in this - because they are in the AIR2 series and I have copies of them in my drawer.  Curiously they make no reference to a rescue mission.

3/ Occleshaw claims that Richard Meinertzhagen was working for a War Office section dealing with Intelligence on Russia - not according to the contemporary War Office List he wasn't.

4/ Occleshaw claims that a mysterious Miss Marguerite Lindsay who entered UK on 8 August 1918 on the same ship as Mrs Meinertzhagen was "Tatiana" as there is no record of her ever existing.  Those interested can trace her previous trans-atlantic journeys by looking her up on the Ellis Island web-site.  She seems to have travelled frequently prior to 1918.

5/ Occleshaw neglects to mention, in his excitement at finding Miss Lindsay arriving on the same ship as Mrs Meinertzhagen, that Richard meinertzhagen and his wife loathed each other like poison and their marriage was likely never consumated.  Mrs M is hardly the person he'd trust on a delicate mission.

Just a few of the fairly serious objections to Occleshaw's book which older members may have seen before.

Phil Tomaselli

PS:  Was it Tatiana who escaped?  Give your opinion on the following new thread:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=anastasia;action=display;num=1103226282;start=0  

[Denise]

Just a quick note, AGR Bear, but the article you posted doesn't refer to the Soth African claimant, Alina.  It refers to a woman Irina who is claiming to be the 6th child of the czar, born in Tobolsk.

Denise

[AGRBear]

I do not know anything about the S. African claimant.

If someone has more about her, please,  post.

Thanks.

AGRBear

PS  Thanks for correction Denise

[AGRBear]

Does anyone know anything more about Eugene Nicholaievitch "Ivannoff" mentioned in THE HUNT FOR THE CZAR by Guy Richards.



Under the photo Plate 29:  "The mysterious Eugene ..., who was an "Alexei" claimant in Poland in 1927."

Is he connected to the claimant Michael Goleniewski?  After re-reading Richards information,  I am not sure if he's talking about the same person or two different people.

AGRBear

[AGRBear]

Same book  has the following data:

When looking for something else,  I noticed the photograph of Anna Anderson in the book by Guy Richards  THE HUNT FOR THE CZAR.  


Underneath was the words: "PLATE 34:  Another claimant to the Romanov fortune, Anna Anderson, circa 1902."

"cira 1902" ??  I didn't know there were any photographs of Anna Anderson/FS  before 1920s.  Maybe, it was mislabeled and should read 1922??  Or, is this an actual photo of AA/FS in 1902?

The GD Anastasia would have been about one ... in 1902.....

A confused bear.....

AGRBear

[stepan]

I haven´t seen this photo anywhere else and i doubt very much it is Anna Anderson. The text says "Anna Anderson ca 1902".   I think the author Guy Richards has made a mistake. There are no photos of Anna Anderson before 1920 the year when "miss unknown" first appeared.  I wonder if anyone else knows anything about this photo?

[AGRBear]

It appears that no one seems to know why the photo is marked 1902 since the majority think the first known photo of AA was taken after 1920.

In 1902 GD Anastasia would have been one and FS about six/seven....

Evidently,  Guy Richard's may have passed away, so we can't ask him.

AGRBear

PS:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=anastasia;action=display;num=1100272107;start=200#200

[AGRBear]

Marga Boodt:  More on her from Penny Wilson.

Now this is a story that is truly a head-scratcher.  Marga claimed to be Grand Duchess Olga, rescued from the Ipatiev House through secret arrangements made by her mother.  She said that she was at prayer one day in a Church near the Ipatiev House (yes, I KNOW!   )  She was kneeling at a prie-dieu, praying away, when a young girl in "peasant dress" came and knelt at the prie-dieu next to her.  She whispered to "Olga" that they should exchange missals.  "Olga" handed hers over, and received the young girl's in turn.  Opening it, she read a short note telling her to go into the sacristy when she was done praying.  A little while later, she wandered over to the sacristy, where the young girl joined her.  They then exchanged clothes, and "Olga" -- now dressed as a peasant -- left with a pair of monarchist officers who were hiding outside the side door of the Church.  It was explained to her that her mother Alexandra had arranged through a series of secret notes, to effect "Olga"'s rescue because she knew that Alexei was not likely to live to adulthood, and therefore "the hope and future of the dynasty" rested on "Olga"'s shoulders.  The young girl had volunteered to die in "Olga"'s place, which she allegedly did on the night of 16/17 July.

The interesting thing about this Marga Boodts is that she tried to run this story twice, the first time in the 1930's, when she was arrested, charged with fraud, convicted, and expelled from France.  At this trial, her possible true identity as a minor Polish Countess was tentatively established -- though she might also have been a Dutch woman from Utrecht. She spent the war years there, living with apparent relatives. She then resurfaced in the late 40s or early 50's, this time in Italy, where she had some increased success with her story, convincing, for example, Prince Friedrich of Saxe-Altenburg of her veracity.

The conviction of the 30s haunted her to an extent, but ironically, she denied her identity as the 1930's Marga Boodts, all the while affirming her identity as Grand Duchess Olga.

There is a lot more detail about her, but this is the gist of the story.  There are two photographs of truly appalling quality that I have sent to Rob for him to kindly post.  They are photocopies from newspapers, one from the thirties, and one from the fifties.  I'm not one who sets a whole lot of store in photo-identity parades, but I am a little more confident in ruling her out as Olga than I am in ruling out AA as Anastasia -- because Olga had an outstanding physical feature in her prominent forehead, which I am pretty sure is missing from both these pictures.

Anyway...

[AGRBear]

Here is a photo of Eugenia Smith in 1963.  She claimed to be GD Anastasia.



AGRBear

[AGRBear]

Alexis of Anjou

This Alexis of Anjou wrote a book in French where he claimed his mother was GD Maria. I think he was inspired to write this after "The file on the tsar" by Summers and Mangold was published in 1975. As we know they tell the theory that the women in the family survived and were brought to Perm.  It was long before the remains of the IF were found so the theory was plausable at the time. The real name of this Alexis of Anjou was Brimeyer and  he died in Spain in 1993. He was known to have forged various papers and titles. Mark Ferro  gave some credence to this story in his biography of Tsar Nicholas.

[Malenkaya]

Could it be the book labeled the wrong claiment?  Maybe it's just me, but:  



looks to me like a younger version of:



Look at the eyes, eyebrows and nose, specifically.

[CuriousOne]

There is a thread conversing about Eugenia Smith at:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=anastasia;action=display;num=1101353786

Curious One

[sunnyluv]

She <Irina> looks very much like them--amazing likeness!  But where is the proof--why do all these claimants that are alive don't take the DNA test and let people know that it is not just another bogus claim?  The nowday technology permits it...Without it--the claim is nothing.  

Any more info on her?  What is her adoptive family name?  Does she has children?  

The only thing there is likeness--I do not know genetics enough to say if the nature can produce people who are so alike but not related--but children often look different from their parents!  Look at the Romanov family--does any one there looked like a dead-on copy of Alexandra?  I do not think so;

Besides, the story is hard to beleive--how is Romanovs could have another daughter without any sources mentioning that Alexandra is pregnant?  No diary records, no mentioning by family and friends--and how they concealed it from soldiers?  

My impression was that they hoped for the best and endured the rough treatment but still did not expect the end they met--if they suspected that new regime wanted to kill them, they would at least try to smuggle the children out--to seek some escape--even if kids were ill with measles at the time;  I do not think they comprehended the gravity of their situation--so I do not think they would go to extra super unhuman lengh to conceal another pregnancy and childbirth in captivity.

Suppose --as unprobable as it sounds--A. was expecting and they did managed to conceal it  --and the daughter is born and only family --not captors --know about it--how she was smuggled?  The German cousin came?  How he managed to get close to them and where he came from?

The story frankly does not hold at all;  Even if I really wanted it to be--but it really does not;

Any thoughts?  I did a search and there is nothing on her;

May be considering the likeness, she is some relative?  

What do you guys think?  Keep on posting!  Thanks,

[AGRBear]

Subject of Irina Nicolayovna has been started on the following thread:

http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=anastasia;action=display;num=1100453389

AGRBear

PS  Gentle reminder:  This thread is a List from which we can start new threads about each claimant