Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I

[HerrKaiser]

Anyway, the Allies did get their reparations and Germany paid through the nose...even to this day or at least recently. My last Audi purchase had a line item on the invoice for war reparations..in 1994.

Huh? I thought reparations were forgiven when the US needed German help during the Cold War? And, were reparations taxes on individuals? I thought that they were payments by the government.

The reparations were definitely not forgiven. Both the government (people) and businesses were tagged with payouts and the government still pays on some of the continuing reparations agreements. for example, one of my cousins who is Jewish is able to travel to Germany from the U.S. completely paid for by the German government.

[dmitri]

Germans have to live with their history. I have German relations, speak German  and have been to Germany many times so I know about it warts and all. The former West Germany got on its feet due to a massive injection of American funding called Marshall Plan Aid after World War 2.  After world war one the real problem was hyperinflation and then the Great Depression. The Weimar Republic was starting to get on its feet until the 1929 Wall Street Crash. Of course ripping the monarchy out of Germany at the end of ww1 was very stupid as it lead to inevitable political instability. The Americans though have never liked monarchy so Wilson put a spanner in the works. Sadly ww1 should never have taken place and nothing Hitler ever did ever benefited Germany. 

[HerrKaiser]

Yes, the Germans do live with their history day in day out. That's what usually happens to the vanquished. As a result, Germany is arguably one of the most human rights oriented, socially conscious nations in the world. Japan emerged in much the same manner. Being crushed and then being forced to acknowledge one's deeds yields a positive result.

on the other hand, the victors get an open door to keep going like that bunny on TV. I'm a staunch, flag waving American, but let's face it, America's bad history, England's bad history, France's bad history etc, get swept under the rugs leaving the appearance their histories are cleaner than those who happen to get beaten up worse.

dmitri, do you know the book "the pity of war" by Niall Ferguson? It underscores your point about the monarchy in Germany.

[Eric_Lowe]

Maybe we should get back to Cecilie ? 

[Espella]

Yes, maybe we should get back, but I want to continue this discussion under whatever thread.  HerrKaiser is so informative, he makes me want to go get some history books.  However, since I didn't look at your profile, I thought you were German.  I didn't know the Germans suffered such a loss of civilian life until watching WWII by Ken Burns the other night.  However, HK, I don't see how that's any different from the bombing of England.  You seem to suggest that the Allies were not justified.

Also, since I'm also "learning," I thought the German government simply budgeted for reparations out of their yearly budget and remitted them to the powers that be, and that lasted for a few years.  I didn't know there was a reparations tax on people and businessses just like a sales tax!!!! and it even goes on now.  When will it be finished?  How is it divided up?  What is it used for?

Okay, under what thread should our discussion go?

[Yseult]

Here is one that epitomizes her youthful beauty as crown princess and truly an early 20th century prototype for Princess diana.

I´m sure it´s a wonderful picture...but I would like to see it in a bigger version, if possible

[Adagietto]

That's one of my favourites too, here you are:


And a couple of similar ones:




I must confess to seeing no similarity at all with Diana. She was far more restrained in her style and far more balanced as a personality

[HerrKaiser]

I misled...I did not mean Cecilie looked like Diana. Rather that she had a uniquely beautiful character, physical beauty, charm, and grace that resulted in a huge amount of public adoration and popularity that the royal family was unaccustomed to. In this regard, she was like diana.

[Adagietto]

Yes, I appreciate the comparison that you are making; Cecilie was indeed very popular, but it seems to me the nature of that popularity was somewhat different, she did not become the object of a rather febrile personality cult in the same way as Diana did. When I think of Diana, I am reminded much more of Elisabeth of Austria, another woman who was never entirely secure in herself (something that one could certainly not say of Cecilie).

[HerrKaiser]

Yes, I appreciate the comparison that you are making; Cecilie was indeed very popular, but it seems to me the nature of that popularity was somewhat different, she did not become the object of a rather febrile personality cult in the same way as Diana did. When I think of Diana, I am reminded much more of Elisabeth of Austria, another woman who was never entirely secure in herself (something that one could certainly not say of Cecilie).

I do agree with your points. Cecilie was very secure in the knowledge that she was a big asset to the royal family and she was also secure in her views on life, family, nature, the future, and the past. She was awed by many not for the same exact things Diana was held in esteem, but the celebrity of each, acheived and earned for different reasons/events/personalities, was a similarly high level.

it would have been nice to see how each would have performed as queen and empress.

[Adagietto]

Absolutely.

I'm sure Cecilie would have made an excellent Empress (just as Elizabeth, wife of George VI, made an excellent Queen). That's relatively easy to predict because we know how she was in her later years, but Diana might have changed in unforeseeable ways as she grew older!

[Yseult]

Adagietto, your postcards of Cecilie are wonderful...I don´t know so much about the lady, but she seems a very template and sweet woman. Dou you know anything about her relationship with her sister, queen Alexandrine, and her sister-in-law Victoria Louise? Thanks in advance!

[Adagietto]

She certainly got on very well with VL. Although there was only about six years difference in their ages, VL was only 12 at the time of Cecilie's marriage, and I get the impression that she rather hero-worshipped her. Later Cecile was able to help VL when she fell in love with Ernst August. The situation was of course a difficult one because his family was on such bad terms with the Hohenzollerns as a result of the Prussian annexation of Hannover, and Cecilie was an ideal person to act as an intermediary between VL and EA because she was his sister-in-law (one of EA's sisters was married to her brother). VL wrote a book about Cecilie in her later years, Die Kronprinzessin, which should reveal a lot about their relationship; I bought a copy recently but haven't got round to reading it.

I don't know about Cecilie and Alexandrine, someone else may be able to help out on that.

Here are one or two pictures of the young VL in Cecilie's company. On shipboard with the Kaiser, Adalbert and some of Cecilie's children:


Out riding together:


In the uniforms of the regiments of which they were the 'Chefs':

[HerrKaiser]

thanks adagietto, all that is interesting and true. Cecilie was hero-worhipped by VL. in fact, when Cecilie arrived as the bethrothed to the crown prince for the first time at the neues palais in Potsdam, the occasion was a very big event. Viktoria was a child and witnessed the pomp and revelry from a window in the palace and was awestruck by her first sight of Cecilie. Viktoria wrote that Cecilie looked like a true fairytale princess arriving in all her beauty and grace to meet her prince charming. On that occasion, Cecilie was wearing a gorgeous all-pink outfit including a pink fur hat and muff. it must have been delightful.

[Yseult]

Very interesting...
Another question...I was wondering myself how managed Cecilie the scandalous private life of her mother, Stassie. I meant...at these times, there was a good deal of gossip about the death of Stassie´s husband and about the love life of Stassie. If I´m not wrong, Stassie had a son out of wedlock and it was not a secret...