Author Topic: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I  (Read 292557 times)

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Offline Learning

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #165 on: October 18, 2007, 09:00:31 PM »
I am just starting to lean about Princess Cecille. Is it true that she and the Crown Prince drifted apart - not divorcing and not completely cutting off contact, but living apart? Is it true that after the war she embraced the Republic? I know she was very popular and her husband was not necessarily so. Was she very bitter about how her life turned out?

Offline Adagietto

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #166 on: October 19, 2007, 05:42:34 AM »
Drifting apart is probably a good way of putting it, the prince had a roving eye and was by no means a faithful husband, and circumstances - the war, and the prince's period of exile - increasingly tended to separate them. As far as one can tell, though, they reached some sort of accommodation, and they seem to have remained on fairly good terms with one another. Immediately after the war the prince went into exile lin the Netherlands like his father, living on the former island of Wieringen, while Cecilie remained in Germany with the children, taking care of their education etc.  In 1923 he was allowed to return and was reunited with Cecilie at Schloss Oels in Silesia, and was able to see the house that Cecile had had built in Potsdam during his absence, the Cecilienhof. Though the prince would certainly have liked to recover his inheritance, both he and Cecilie seem to have adapted quite graciously to their new new circumstances. To be able to live as a privileged private citizen had certain advantages too. The prince was quite popular before the war. Although I personally don't find him an appealing character, he apparently had considerable charm and was able to get on well with people of all kinds. Altogether an easier man to deal with and associate with than his father. Though he had some comparable limitations in outlook.

Here is Cecilie riding with her husband and son before the war:



The Crown Prince at Schloss Oels in 1923/4:


« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 08:08:27 AM by Svetabel »

Offline XJaseyRaeX

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #167 on: October 19, 2007, 11:35:30 AM »
awww those are good pictures of Cecile!  :D

here's a picture i found of Cecile's daughters



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Offline Learning

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #168 on: October 19, 2007, 11:38:32 AM »
I am also just starting to learn about Crown Prince Wilhelm. From what I gather he was rather a dashing figure who enjoyed life and its comforts.

However, the literature I have seen is not sympathetic. It paints him as self-absorbed, cruel in wasting lives during the war, and relatively unconcerned with his family responsibilities during and after WWII. I read a quotation from a French officer after WWII in which the officer basically said "the whole world is suffering, your family is suffering, and all you care about is yourself." Is this accurate? Had he been more realistic could he have taken the throne after the first war?

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #169 on: October 19, 2007, 12:17:09 PM »
as is clearly visible, Cecilie began to age and acheive that "matronly" look of a little frumpiness way too early in her life. Her grand era was 1905 to the middle of the war, a mere 10 years and her day in the limelight was cut short.

She did not leave center stage, so to speak, but her glamour and elegantness was severely diminished with the ravages of war, broken homelife, and the stresses of post war Germany.

Her husband was indeed a popular man. the irony of German leaders is that the good ones either die young or miss their chances; the not so good ones keep going like that bunny on TV.
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Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #170 on: October 19, 2007, 12:35:53 PM »
I am also just starting to learn about Crown Prince Wilhelm. From what I gather he was rather a dashing figure who enjoyed life and its comforts.

However, the literature I have seen is not sympathetic. It paints him as self-absorbed, cruel in wasting lives during the war, and relatively unconcerned with his family responsibilities during and after WWII. I read a quotation from a French officer after WWII in which the officer basically said "the whole world is suffering, your family is suffering, and all you care about is yourself." Is this accurate? Had he been more realistic could he have taken the throne after the first war?

I have not facts about this French officer's  quote, but the last people I would consider credible in their comments about anything German after WWI would be the French military and government.

One must remember that the 11/11/18 Armistice was a truce. The German people thought the next steps were peace negotiations. In the midst of an internal revolution, a truce was almost the only option and it was also welcomed by the allied forces. During the subsequent months, the Germans were horrified to be excluded from peace discussions. they had after the armistice obediently disarmed (the allies did not) and believed the Armistice terms were for everyone to do so. When the Germans were presented with the terms of the treaty, they rejected it hands down, but were then threatened with a ultimatum of death and destruction in 24 hours of they would not sign. Having disbanded the military and unable to muster any defense to the threat, they were forced to sign. So began Act II to WWI...the preparation for WWII.

Wilhelm was raised on the gilded age of peace and prosperity. No wars for over 30 years which was a record at the time. Economy was great. Everything was booming in a good way. His view of his own future was quite rosey and his children had even more of that view of life. Two of his boys became quite popular in American business concerns and friends with leading busienss and social figures.

I believe he and Cecilie would have had a very wonderful life, leadership, and would have achieved greater popularity as time went on had WWI not put an end to their entire situation.

Interesting trivia tid bit is that Wilhelm is the last true leader of troops in battle who was actually the nation's leader or #2. Since then, only the poor suckers who have no power get thrown into battle.
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Offline Adagietto

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #171 on: October 19, 2007, 01:25:44 PM »
She did come to look rather matronly, but then she was the mother of a sizeable family! All the same, I think she looked good all through her life. Here in the mid-20's:


Offline Learning

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #172 on: October 19, 2007, 04:01:00 PM »
Thanks again, Herr Kaiser. Sorry if I wrote confusingly, but the French officer quotation was after WWII, when he was briefly in French custody near the family castle in Hohenzollern. I believe it was from a book "Life of Crown Prince Williiam." I have it someone in storage. (I hate not having all my books nearby!)

Offline Learning

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #173 on: October 19, 2007, 04:02:17 PM »
With the Red Army nearing Potsdam in the closing days of World War II, Cecille went to Stuttgart correct? Did she have relatives there with whom she stayed?

Offline Adagietto

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #174 on: October 20, 2007, 12:46:25 PM »
If I remember rightly she first went to Bad Kissingen in Bavaria, where she was able to take refuge with the family of a former court doctor.  It was Louis Ferdinand, I think, who eventually arranged something for her in or near Stuttgart.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #175 on: October 20, 2007, 10:13:36 PM »
Art wrote this earlier in the thread:

"Cecilie remainined in Prussia until it was due time to leave Potsdam for the West.

Her eldest surviving son, Prince Louis Ferdinand, left Schloß Cadinen as the Russians approached and moved his family to Cecilienhof where Cecilie awaited them.  From here they left to the north of Germany, where they felt safe.

Cecilie's nephew, Duke Christian Ludwig of Mecklenburg-Schwerin suffered a different fate.  Initially he left with his parents, who received refuge at Louisenlund, a Schleswig-Holstein property, but then Christian Ludwig decided to make one last return to Schwerin to retrieve more family heirlooms.  Unfortunately he was caught while doing so and sent to a prisoner of war camp in Russia.  For almost ten years he was feared lost/killed until in the 1950's he reappeared among a contingent of prisoners of war  exchanged between the Soviet Union and the Allies. "
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #176 on: October 20, 2007, 10:26:02 PM »
thanks adagietto, all that is interesting and true. Cecilie was hero-worhipped by VL. in fact, when Cecilie arrived as the bethrothed to the crown prince for the first time at the neues palais in Potsdam, the occasion was a very big event. Viktoria was a child and witnessed the pomp and revelry from a window in the palace and was awestruck by her first sight of Cecilie. Viktoria wrote that Cecilie looked like a true fairytale princess arriving in all her beauty and grace to meet her prince charming. On that occasion, Cecilie was wearing a gorgeous all-pink outfit including a pink fur hat and muff. it must have been delightful.

I had written this earlier in the thread:

"Princess Victoria Louise (her sister-in-law) records in her autobiography:

"...I was overwhelmed with curiousity as to how a proper bride should look....I went through to have a look. Cecile's beauty, grace and charm filled me with astonishment....I went through..several times more in order to have a good look at her...Cecile's bewitching appearance at least conformed to the picture conjured up by my girlish fantasy..." "
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline Stasie

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #177 on: October 22, 2007, 03:11:11 PM »



Offline XJaseyRaeX

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #178 on: October 22, 2007, 03:55:10 PM »
Down syndrome or trisomy 21 (usually Down's Syndrome in British English[1]) is a genetic disorder caused by the presence of all or part of an extra 21st chromosome. It is named after John Langdon Down, the British doctor who described it in 1866. The disorder was identified as a chromosome 21 trisomy by Jérôme Lejeune in 1959. The condition is characterized by a combination of major and minor differences in structure. Often Down syndrome is associated with some impairment of cognitive ability and physical growth as well as facial appearance. Down syndrome can be identified during pregnancy or at birth.

Individuals with Down syndrome can have a lower than average cognitive ability, often ranging from mild to moderate learning disabilities. Developmental disabilities often manifest as a tendency toward concrete thinking or naïveté. A small number have severe to profound mental disability. The incidence of Down syndrome is estimated at 1 per 800 to 1,000 births.

Many of the common physical features of Down syndrome also appear in people with a standard set of chromosomes. They may include a single transverse palmar crease (a single instead of a double crease across one or both palms), an almond shape to the eyes caused by an epicanthic fold of the eyelid, upslanting palpebral fissures, shorter limbs, poor muscle tone, a larger than normal space between the big and second toes, and protruding tongue. Health concerns for individuals with Down syndrome include a higher risk for congenital heart defects, gastroesophageal reflux disease, recurrent ear infections, obstructive sleep apnea, and thyroid dysfunctions.

Early childhood intervention, screening for common problems, medical treatment where indicated, a conducive family environment, and vocational training can improve the overall development of children with Down syndrome. Although some of the physical genetic limitations of Down syndrome cannot be overcome, education and proper care will improve quality of life.



here's a little information about Down syndrome itself


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Offline Adagietto

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Re: Crownprince Wilhelm & Crownprincess Cecilie, their family, Part I
« Reply #179 on: October 22, 2007, 04:32:10 PM »
Here are one or two pictures of her in family groups, or at family gatherings, which show very well,  I think, how she was regarded and treated within the family.


Crown Princess Cecilie can be seen here with her children and most of the main members of the former imperial family; Alexandrine can be seen in the centre at the front.



Beside her mother at the celebrations of the Silver Wedding of the Crown Prince and Princess at Huis Doorn, the Kaiser's home in the Netherlands.


At the confirmation of Princess Herzeleide, the daughter of her uncle Prince Oskar, second from the right at the front.

I have posted this elsewhere here but it is worth repeating because it is a particularly nice picture; with her brothers and sister, Prince Louis Ferdinand on the right has his arm round her shoulder.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 07:00:09 AM by Svetabel »