Author Topic: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.  (Read 24683 times)

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Bsquared

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The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« on: February 10, 2007, 05:17:17 PM »
Would any of our esteemed AP Members have details or photographs of the coronation of King George VI?  Interesting details to me would be the foreign royals who attended the coronation (i.e. Princes of the Blood Royal).  Any Romanovs or Greek Royals present (besides Princess Marina of course)? I can't seem to find this information in the New York Times database, although other details are provided.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2007, 06:54:44 PM »
Here's a little factoid:

A 47-year-old seamstress in Paris, Madame Lucie, sued in England and France to have the coronation halted. Her grounds? That she was the legitimate daughter of the Duke of Clarence (Eddy) and an 'unnamed' sister of Kaiser Wilhelm II. They apparently married but the union was quickly disposed of and she was put up for adoption. She claims that the crest of the Hanoverian royal family on her shoulder was proof.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2007, 07:00:32 PM »
Some of the foreign notables:

Princess Juliana and Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands
Prince Chichibu of Japan
Crown Prince Michael of Romania
Count of Flanders
Crown Prince Olav and Crown Princess Martha of Norway
Crown Prince Gustav Adolf and Crown Princess Louise of Sweden
Crown Prince Frederick and Crown Princess Ingrid of Denmark
Prince Paul and Princess Olga of Yugoslavia
HRH the Grand Voevod of Alba Julia
Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia
Prince of Preslav
Crown Prince of Greece
Prince Mohammad Abdul Moneim (Egypt)
Seif al Islam Hussein (Yemen)
Sirdar Shah Wali Khan (Afghanistan)
Gen. John Pershing was one of the US representatives
Foreign Commissar Maxim Litvinoff (Russia)
Foreign Minister Yvon Delbos (France)
PM William Mackenzie King (Canada)
PM Joseph Lyons (Australia)
Labor PM MJ Savage (New Zealand)
PM J.B.M. Hertzog (South Africa)
Emir of Trans-Jordan
Prince Chula Chakrabongs (Siam)
Prince Felix of Luxemburg

I have the longer list of non-royal dignitaries but it's pretty long.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 07:18:02 PM by grandduchessella »
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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2007, 07:30:29 PM »
Members of the extended royal family present (no particular order):

Lady Maud and Lord Carnegie (Maud was the former Princess Maud of Fife)
Marquess and Marchioness of Carisbrooke (Marquess was the former Prince Alexander of Battenberg)
Earl of Macduff (son of Arthur Connaught & Alexandra Fife)
Marquess and Marchioness of Milford-Haven & Lady Tatiana Mountbatten
Marquess and Marchioness of Cambridge (previously Teck)
Lord Frederick Cambridge
Lady Mary Cambridge
Lady Helena Gibbs (nee Teck)
Duchess of Beaufort (nee Teck)
Major Henry Abel Smith and Lady May Abel Smith (May was Alice Athlone & Alexander Teck's daughter)
Lady Louis Mountbatten and Miss Patricia Mountbatten
Prince Arthur of Conanught and Princess Arthur (Alexandra) of Connaught, Duchess of Fife
Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone
Lady Patricia Ramsey
Princess Marie Louise
Princess Helena Victoria
Queen Mary
Queen Maud of Norway
Duke and Duchess of Gloucester
Duke and Duchess of Kent
Princess Elizabeth
Princess Margaret
Princess Mary, Countess of Harewood, Princess Royal

King George VI's train was carried by, amongst others, Alexander Ramsey (son of Patricia Connaught) and Viscount Lascelles (son of his sister Princess Mary). Queen Elizabeth's train bearer's included Lady Iris Mountbatten.

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2007, 11:32:26 PM »
Countess of Strathmore

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ilyala

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2007, 02:15:08 AM »

Crown Prince Michael of Romania
HRH the Grand Voevod of Alba Julia


not to be picky but these are one and the same person.
grand voevod of alba julia was a title carol 2nd of romania invented for his son, so that crown princes of romania also have fancy unique titles, like the dauphine of france and the prince of wales in england and the prince of asturias in spain. something that would sound more fancy than 'crown prince' (a common title) and that would also say 'crown prince of romania'

so the grand voevod of alba julia was crown prince michael of romania, future king michael.

ashdean

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2007, 03:16:53 AM »
The 4th, next to Queen Mary, is Queen Maud of Norway.

The 1st from left is wearing a peeress's gown--perhaps it's the Countess of Brecknock who was attending the Duchess of Kent? Or it could be one of those in attendance on Queen Mary--the Duchess of Devonshire, the Countess of Airlie (her best friend) or the Dowager Lady Ampthill.
[/uote]The lady is Nina Cecilia,Countess of Strathmore... the Mother of the Queen who was placed with her husband at the end of the front row.Duchess of non royal blood do not sit on the balcony but near the altar..

Robert_Hall

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2007, 07:20:06 AM »
Anyone know who this gal is?

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2007, 12:15:36 PM »
Looks like Gladys someone Robert!!
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Bsquared

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2007, 01:38:56 PM »
Great info everyone, thank you!  It looks like a grand occasion in that gloomy peroid of history..Anyone know if Prince Philip was at the coronation.

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2007, 02:58:52 PM »

Crown Prince Michael of Romania
HRH the Grand Voevod of Alba Julia


not to be picky but these are one and the same person.
grand voevod of alba julia was a title carol 2nd of romania invented for his son, so that crown princes of romania also have fancy unique titles, like the dauphine of france and the prince of wales in england and the prince of asturias in spain. something that would sound more fancy than 'crown prince' (a common title) and that would also say 'crown prince of romania'

so the grand voevod of alba julia was crown prince michael of romania, future king michael.

That's not picky--thanks for the clarification. I wondered who the heck it was--it was listed separately in different news reports with no further explaination of who it was. Usually the country was listed at least.
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Leuchtenberg

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2007, 10:36:41 PM »
I am going to venture a guess and say that #1 is the Countess of Strathmore and Kinghorne, Queen Elizabeth's mother.

That is correct.

Leuchtenberg

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2007, 10:38:41 PM »
Anyone know who this gal is?


Going by the length of the train and the somewhat difficult to see coronet, the peeress has the rank of a Baroness.

CHRISinUSA

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2007, 10:06:15 AM »
This was posted in the jewels thread, but I thought it warranted it's own.

Off thread I know, but still about glad rags and baubles in a way!!! I know it is no doubt some way off yet...but can anyone envisage the form of the next coronation! I mean without the whole herditary ethos, it would be farcical to have all the peers of the realm donning their coronets and booming Long live the King and all that! I can not imagine how Charles and the court have been able to reconcile themselves to the idea of a coronation, where herediment no longer has a de facto basis of power within the status quo! It must be pretty alarming to have to redesign the whole staging! No hereditary peers, for how could a nation that has done away with such things sit back and allow those deprived of their power, to attend and participate in such a monumental ceremony? Perehaps the elected peers would be allowed to attend in lieu, but then why should Lord Archer and the like be permited to attend!!! No doubt a pretty sticky issue!

I imagine this will be sticky.  But I did a little reading on the form of the coronation for Elizabeth II, specifically looking at which peers participated at each step, and why.  

Basically, it seems Peers don't have a major role the coronation itself.  Aside from the Archbishops and Bishops, the Dean of Westminster, the Great Officers of State, and four Knights of the Garter, nobody else seems to have a large role in the ceremony.  Except, of course, at the end when the Homage happens.  At this step (after the annointing / crowning / enthronement, etc.), all of the Peers of the Realm pay homage one by one to the new monarch, in order of precedence set by their rank, and date of creation, etc.

Although hereditary Peers no longer sit in the Lords by right of inheritence, they remain Peers of the Relam, hereditary councellors to the Sovereign , and - unless I am mistaken - retain certain rights and priveledges granted over the centuries.  They also hold official precedence on court occasions - such as coronations.

On a more shallow note, of course, a coronation would pale without the added ceremony of the Peers of the Realm in their robes and coronets.  

So what does everyone think?  At the coronation of Charles III / George VII, will the Peers of the Realm attend?  In their coronets and robes?  Will they retain their precedence as before?  Will they continue to pay homage before all others?

alixaannencova

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2007, 11:03:50 AM »
Who shall carry the regalia? Thank you ChrisinUSA for taking the initiative?

 I appreciate His Grace the Duke of Norfolk retains his seat in the Lords and is thus still justifiably regarded with some respect as Earl Marshal....but really......how could we possibly accept Lord Archer's participation in such procceedings! I know in days gone by, other less than 'noble' peers were by right able to participate in the coronation but, IM humble opinion, the scene of Archer in the abbey makes me cringe!!!!

On the point of hereditary peers, I cannot see justifiably how the present Duke of Manchester (presently a resident of California) would merit the right to attend a future coronation where he would be obliged to make homage!!! It would make a complete mockery of what Mr Blair has done to change the face of Britain's status quo!! What acceptable right would His Grace of Manchester have to attend over say, Sir Tim Berners Lee OM. Sticky point indeed!!!

Sorry but I do like my exclamation marks! Anyway, the whole point of peers attending a coronation was to pay homage to the incumbent monarch, by 'cousins' in order to maintain the symbolic balance of power between Crown and Commoners. A concept now long dormant! The font of all honours was thus honoured in return with 'sacred' homage and loyalty before 'an' altar of God. Without the hereditary peerage, the monarchy looks rather out of place IM humble opinion, at least where the concept of a future coronation is concerned at least!

 Perhaps the Palace will come up with a new concept.....Sir David Attenborough bearing th orb and Lord Winston (Of test tube baby fame) the Sceptre with Cross, therefore bringing in a meritous flavour to procceedings! But to have Lord Archer and the like attending by right of their elevation to Lords alone, emits a dreadful odour from which I for one would turn away with a grimace!!