Author Topic: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.  (Read 24303 times)

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Antoniam

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2007, 04:11:40 AM »
Turn them into a President and they become yet another politician. That's something Australian's don't want.

Well 45.13% of the voting population in the 1999 referendum, did want a President. That's the percentage that voted yes to a republic, Australia wide. 55% voted no, but then many of those voted no to the republican model on offer not to the idea of Australia becoming a republic. This was stated quite publicly by people asked about their votes.

dmitri

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2007, 04:52:35 AM »
That is very misleading and cannot be grounded in any way by fact. 55% voted for maintaining the status quo. They did not want a republic. Not one state voted in favour either. 72% of federal electorates votes no as well. Nothing else should be inferred.

Offline Grace

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2007, 05:04:15 AM »
I'd like to know where Antoniam's figures come from...

dmitri

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2007, 05:13:56 AM »
1999 republican referendum in Australia. The referendum was defeated. The figures come from the Australian Electoral Commission which is charged with organising polls and referendums in Australia. They keep the statistics. To change the Australian constitution a majority of votes is required as well as a majority of votes in a majority of the six Australian states. Neither requirement was met. Not one state voted in favour of the republic and no majority across the country was achieved either.

dmitri

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2007, 05:16:28 AM »
Getting back to the real topic of the thread .. the next coronation .. I think it will be a much simpler affair in fitting with the times. I think there will still be a religious section and also the signing of the coronation oath. It will not be like the 1953 ceremony although there will be some common elements like the annointing and crowning. Apart from this I believe the hommage of peers will go as peers no longer have the same constitutional role as they once did. Of course there will be a procession to and from the abbey. I think this too will be much simpler.

Offline Grace

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2007, 06:50:36 AM »
I'd like to know where Antoniam's figures come from...

I mean where the breakdown of his/her figures comes from.  Being Australian myself, I know about the referendum.

Unfortunately, without the smilies, my replies are sounding as deadpan as I feel tonight.  When are they coming back?


Offline Grace

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2007, 07:01:16 AM »
Getting back to the real topic of the thread .. the next coronation .. I think it will be a much simpler affair in fitting with the times. I think there will still be a religious section and also the signing of the coronation oath. 

Of course there will still be a religious section.  The coronation - the crowning of a new monarch - is a religious ceremony held in Westminster Abbey.  It's not simply a civil affair with a prayer thrown in for good measure.

Why do the times fit in with a simpler affair?  Other big events such as the opening and closing ceremonies of the Olympic Games and the Academy Awards annual presentations have hardly got simpler over the years, have they?  I know which of these I think the most significant.

Offline Martyn

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2007, 07:40:34 AM »
Getting back to the real topic of the thread .. the next coronation .. I think it will be a much simpler affair in fitting with the times. I think there will still be a religious section and also the signing of the coronation oath. 

Of course there will still be a religious section.  The coronation - the crowning of a new monarch - is a religious ceremony held in Westminster Abbey.  It's not simply a civil affair with a prayer thrown in for good measure.

Why do the times fit in with a simpler affair?  Other big events such as the opening and closing ceremonies of the Olympic Games and the Academy Awards annual presentations have hardly got simpler over the years, have they?  I know which of these I think the most significant.

Yes, I agree with you Grace.  Why is it seemingly so essential that it should be a simpler affair?  For most of us Coronations come but once a lifetime, if we are lucky, and some of us expect to see the full impact of the symbolism of the ceremony.

Surely the Coronation is the purest expression of the transition from heir to monarch; is it wrong to wish the ceremony to embody all the tradition and history that is attached to the monarchy, as well as to reflect some modern ideas?
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

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dmitri

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2007, 10:06:33 AM »
I guess it is because the monarchy evolves with the times. Noone would honestly say the monarchy in 2007 is like it was in 1952. Times change and the monarchy does as well. Elizabeth II's coronation was different from that of her predecessors even in a slight way. She wore braclets that represented the Commonwealth for one thing. Obviously the degree of deference for the monarchy in 2007 is nothing like it was in 1952 when she became Queen. Her Prime Minister is also nothing like that of 1952. Gordon Brown is not Winston Churchill. Times change and the monarchy does also. Evolution is far better than revolution. A coronation is not to be compared with an academy awards ceremony or an olympic closing or opening ceremony thank goodness. Hopefully it has far greater meaning.

Offline TampaBay

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2007, 10:59:59 AM »
Getting back to the real topic of the thread .. the next coronation .. I think it will be a much simpler affair in fitting with the times. I think there will still be a religious section and also the signing of the coronation oath. It will not be like the 1953 ceremony although there will be some common elements like the annointing and crowning. Apart from this I believe the hommage of peers will go as peers no longer have the same constitutional role as they once did. Of course there will be a procession to and from the abbey. I think this too will be much simpler.

Depends on who is to be crowned.  If William is the next crowned it will be a HUGE to do!!!

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Offline Lucien

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alixaannencova

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2009, 07:36:11 PM »
Hello Leuchtenberg!

Re: the gal in robes you posted. Indeed the sitter was a Baroness!

It is Gladys, Dowager Baroness Swaythling. Her father in law, the first Baron Swaythling established the merchant bank Samuel Montagu and Co. The family were 'New money' with a capital N. The Samuel Motagu family produced some very interesting and contrasting personalities. Some were very high profile in Anglo Jewish affairs, whilst other were not and played down their Jewish beliefs. Their people originated from Liverpool I think.
 The first Lord Swaythling was a remarkable man actually, very much the self made entrepreneur and a great philanthropist from what I recall. By the time the photograph of Gladys was taken, her eldest son had succeeded to the peerage as 3rd Baron. Her two younger sons, Ewen and Ivor Montagu lead very interesting lives. Whilst Ewen is known to have worked for MI6 and been responsible in part for the implementation of Operation Mincemeat during WWII, Ivor is suspected of having been a spy for the Soviets.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 07:46:10 PM by alixaannencova »

RomonovRule

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2009, 12:46:58 AM »
Who will that be?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 12:51:11 AM by RomonovRule »

Paul

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2009, 11:08:10 AM »
Getting back to the real topic of the thread .. the next coronation .. I think it will be a much simpler affair in fitting with the times. I think there will still be a religious section and also the signing of the coronation oath. It will not be like the 1953 ceremony although there will be some common elements like the annointing and crowning. Apart from this I believe the hommage of peers will go as peers no longer have the same constitutional role as they once did. Of course there will be a procession to and from the abbey. I think this too will be much simpler.

Depends on who is to be crowned.  If William is the next crowned it will be a HUGE to do!!!


Very true- and I hope that the Powers That Be go all out for the festivities! A well executed royal event can lift & inspire people in a way that no dreary, beige-and-gray republic could ever hope to match.

Offline Grace

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Re: The Coronations in XX-XXI cent.
« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2009, 01:07:32 PM »
Depends on who is to be crowned.  If William is the next crowned it will be a HUGE to do!!!

TampaBay

It won't be William unless Charles predeceases the Queen.