Author Topic: Anna Anderson and Anastasia  (Read 221629 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #495 on: October 09, 2004, 10:39:17 AM »
I thought this was a known fact that Yurovsky and Lenin were close even before the revolution known as Red October [Oct/Nov 1917].

I remember reading about Yurovsky's first meeting of Lenin was in Germany,  however,  my memory fails me as to what book it was.  Perhaps,  the author was merely spreading a rumor.  Not unusal in the older books.   So, for now, until I remember the source  [probably a book on Lenin],  I'll have to voice it as a rumor.  

Hmmmmm,  I can't seem to pull it out of my memory.

Sorry folks.

When I do find it,  I will post.

Now,  I'm off to find the box which has King and Wilson's book to read what they have to say about Radzinsky.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #496 on: October 09, 2004, 11:23:56 AM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #497 on: October 09, 2004, 03:05:19 PM »
In actuality, Anna Andersen and the Grand Duchess had very little resemblances. Nearly every adult you know "looks like" their grade school photos; especally when comparing people in their early 20s to their youth. This was the timeframe of comparison for Anna. Anna Andersen bore no such similarites to Anastasia that would give us cause to say "that is she!".

Clearly, however, Anna had facts about the Romanovs that she must have learned by means other than studying published histories. Anna may have known one or more of the executioneers or guards during the imprisonment of the royal family. Such a person could have gained Anastasia's confidence, and Anastasia could have communicated many personal facts which were later told to Mrs. Andersen.

Manipulating the DNA test would be a serious crime, but not outside the realm of possibility, especially since there were many people, including some royals, who did not want the test to be positive. Of course, another lab could do the test to validate or invalidate the original findings.

Nonetheless, it seems the actual physical appearance from photos when the women were only a few years apart in age tells us these were not the same individuals. A person would age and contort under extreme stress from surviving the revolution, but she would not get a different facial structure.

Now the bigger mystery and questions are about how Anna Andersen came to know what she knew.
HerrKaiser

cville

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #498 on: October 09, 2004, 05:59:16 PM »
Whether Anna Anderson and Anastasia Romanov resembled each other is a hot conjecture. Sometimes it depends on which pictures are being compared. Three that may be relevant are these:

The famous Life Magazine cover of 1963 that Life said said was taken in 1916 - Anastasia is at 1 o'clock
http://www.freewarehof.org/czarkids.jpg

This teenage photo of Anastasia (origin unknown)
http://www.freewarehof.org/anasgirl.jpg

This German hospital photo of Anderson circa 1923. There is no question that this person and the thumbnail photo out there in the left upper corner are the same person. The thumbnail is Anderson in 1968.
http://www.freewarehof.org/anderson.jpg

How that thumbnail came to be taken is found on my web page telling some anecdotes about Anna Manahan: http://www.freewarehof.org/manahans.html

Perhaps photo imaging software and a sharp eye can shed some light on the matter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by cville »

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #499 on: October 09, 2004, 11:22:40 PM »
I'm certain you didn't intend it, Cville, but you are using one of Bob Atchison's colorized photos of Anastasia. Do you have his permission to do so? I recognize his work, and I remember when he did this photo colorization. I wonder because you don't attribute his work to him.

Also, I'm sure you mean no offense, but you refer to the Tsar's children as "kiddies". These young murder victims deserve a more respectful designation, don't you think?

pushkina

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #500 on: October 10, 2004, 01:09:15 AM »
cville:

this quote i lifted from your page:

"Girls like Maria who spent their childhood having tea with the Czar's children every Wednesday weren't trained to make a living, but Maria had some talent and endless spunk, it appears."

does anyone know about this? weekly meetings bewteen the imperial children and R's kids?  wasn't maria at school in SP?  

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #501 on: October 10, 2004, 01:11:32 AM »
This, I am afraid, is yet another instance of someone claiming a far closer relationship with the IF than actually existed.

cville

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #502 on: October 10, 2004, 01:12:46 AM »
The images on that page come from a variety of sites and sources, including my own archives.  Where I got that one I have no idea. It was not from a site that carried attributions. I'd appreciate it if you would direct me to a site where he has this photo. I'll follow-up from there.

The original images on my site - those produced by me -  are copyrighted but freely available for all to use without attribution.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #503 on: October 10, 2004, 01:24:41 AM »
I believe this is the same colorized photo that appears on the "My Name Is Anastasia" website that is part of the Alexander Palace "family" of sites. This website was done in 1997 (as I recall) because of the animated cartoon.

I have two friends who do colorizations of Romanov photographs - and I remember this being one of Bob's.

cville

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #504 on: October 10, 2004, 02:32:59 AM »
Lisa,

Thank you for your interest and your work on this. I do appreciate it. After some exploration, I decided to use the image in its original state without the color enhancement.

Along the way I came across a most enticing photo of the sisters. Most people here may have seen it but for me, it was a new treat.
http://members.tripod.com/~Pharaoh30/duchesses.gif

If that won't display, it appears at the bottom of this page:
http://members.tripod.com/~Pharaoh30/index-4.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by cville »

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #505 on: October 10, 2004, 10:57:53 AM »
The color photo of Anastasia was absolutely Bob Atchison's and was NOT used with his permission.
For the record, Bob does NOT permit his pictures to be used without his permission, so do NOT reproduce anything off the website without asking first.
Second, for the record. Maria R met the IF once. Period. For tea, and it lasted about 90 minutes or so.

Offline Merrique

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #506 on: October 10, 2004, 11:07:07 AM »
Quote
Second, for the record. Maria R met the IF once. Period. For tea, and it lasted about 90 minutes or so.


I thought thats what I had read somewhere once but I couldn't remember.I didn't think Maria R. had any kind of deeper relationship with the IF.
Don't knock on Death's door....ring the doorbell and run. He hates that.:D

pushkina

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #507 on: October 11, 2004, 12:16:07 AM »
Quote
Second, for the record. Maria R met the IF once. Period. For tea, and it lasted about 90 minutes or so.



so, cville,

did marya rasputin TELL [/i] you that she had weekly teas with the IF or did you just assume it?

from my recollections, the rasputin girls, while being brought up in SP and on the edges of at least middle class life with some society connections, were not being brought up as members of the leisure class and definitely not as members of the nobility.

Evanescence

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #508 on: October 11, 2004, 12:59:45 PM »
Well, there's a lot of info supporting and thwarting the case of Anna Anderson. In history, you need to look at both sides or your view might not be correct. I personally shift back and forth in my belief (I seriously have nothing better to do...)

Evidence

-Anna Anderson reminded Maria Rasputin of the Red Cross nurse outfit incident and convinced her.
-Anna reminded Gleb Botkin's son about the "funny animals"
-Anna's face, scars, feet, features, ears (specially) resembled that of the Grand Duchess.
-Anna also had the same foot deformity as Anastasia, hallux vulgus.
-Anna recognized people that the genuine Anastasia knew by their voice.
-Anna knew about the peace mission her uncle went on (yes, it was true).
-Also later on it was discovered that the DNA test was not taken %100 correctly.
-There is strong evidence supporting that the DNA test was rigged, by the people who wanted to discredit Anna.
-Anna's ears looked exactly like Anastasia's. No matter what photographs or methods were used the result was the same. The ears were identical.
-(This probably falls under the features point, oh well) Anna had the same mesmerizing eyes, and identical auburnish hair color. (Is auburnish a real word if not it is now!!! ;D)
-Anna's handwriting was very similar to that of the Grand Duchess.
-According to interviews of some of the executioners, it was declared that Anastasia had survived.
-There is a chance that only the Tsar, Tsarina, and Tsarevitch were killed and the daughters imprisoned somewhere else after their parents' deaths and Anastasia ran away and survived.

Evidence thwarting Anna

-Anna read magazines about the royal family.
-Anna had accurate details about the family's bank account (it is highly unlikely that Anastasia would have had this information).
-Anna was "proven" that she wasn't Anastasia through DNA (though after an thorough investigation problems about the test were uncovered).

Anna was probably NOT Franziska. Because

-Franziska's hands were rough while Anna's were soft and well kept.
-Anna could speak many languages that Franziska could not. This was confirmed by Franziska's family.
-Forensic experts found many differences between the two faces.
-Franziska's teeth were like "black stumps".
-Franziska did not have hallux vulgus while Anna and Anastasia did.
-Franziska's siblings met Anna and said she was too polite to be their sister.
-Franziska disappeared in the May of 1920 while Anna was found in February.
-Also if Franziska was admitted to Berlin hospitals and sanatoriums six times by 1920 why did no one recognize Anna?

But then again she could've been

-Franziska's sibling said she did look like Anna.
-Franziska did resemble Anna a bit.

Please visit this website which helped convince me a bit that Anna was Anastasia, http://www.geocities.com/kransnoeselo/Front.html

Anyway, Anastasia was a delightful child and it was a terrible thing that happened in Ipatiev house during the night of July 17th of 1918. Also if Anna wasn't Anastasia, she is still a remarkable person herself. Both deserve recognition. Well, that took a long time to type...At least I have chocolate to guide my way!! MUAHAHAHAHA...I'm not weird, well not a lot...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Evanescence »

JonC

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #509 on: October 11, 2004, 03:43:20 PM »
To all.

Hey, I suggested earlier for someone to make a detailed mathematical study of both Anna A. and Anastasia N.s' faces. Something on the lines of the study done on the Egyptian Sphinx by that NYC detective forensic artist. I saw it on National Geographic a while ago.

The face on the Sphinx had been thought to belong to some pharoah...I forget who...( Kufu?) and after the study which involved comparing its profile, distance between the eyes and size of forehead, etc., with a known image of that Pharoah it was found that the face on the Sphinx didn't match that Pharoah at all.

As a matter of fact the face on the Sphinx didn't match any known Pharoah what-so-ever.

Now we have so many artists on this web site I'm sure someone could take on the study. Best regards. JonC.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by JonC »