Author Topic: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family  (Read 289731 times)

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Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #285 on: January 09, 2011, 09:16:16 AM »

It is quite obvious that Eleonore's rank was not considered equal to the Grand Duke's.

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #286 on: January 09, 2011, 11:49:50 AM »
It is quite obvious that Eleonore's rank was not considered equal to the Grand Duke's.
Yes, he was a Royal Highness while she was a mere Serene Highness.
But a marriage can still be looked down upon as a social mésalliance, even if it's ebenbürtig in the eyes of law (i.e. the German Acts of Confederation of 1815). (Just like there is an enormous social difference in marrying a [insert member of a lower social class] as opposed to Kate Middleton's sister or brother, even if they all are mere commoners.)

I think no fuss was made if a junior dynast married a médiatisé(e), e.g. Archduke Friedrich and Princess Isabella of Croÿ, but for a reigning sovereign to do the so was not "a great match", as QV would have said.

Interestingly, Eleonore's seize quartiers have some of the same "stains" as Empress Auguste Victoria's: Eleonore's paternal grandmother was the daughter of a Prince of Collalto and San Salvatore (was he considered reichsunmittelbar?) and a Hungarian countess. Her mother's paternal grandmother was a mere baroness of the lower nobility.

Sounds a lot like Auguste Victoria with her problematic comital Danneskiold-Samsøe grandmother. (Who again was the daughter of a mere noble. The family, Kaas (pronounced [ko:s] not [ka:s] like Dutch "cheese") is Danish Uradel, but untitled. And this Kaas father himself, although an admiral and son of another admiral, had a bourgeois mother called Mette Mathisen, who although the widow of a major, was the daughter of a mere church deacon.

as well as her status as a princess from a mediatizated Dukedom whcih was considered unequal.
Interesting trivia: The Standesherrschaft of Solms-Hohensolms-Lich was technically a principality, there were almost no mediatized duchies in Germany, only titular dukedoms. The only genuine one I can think of is the Duchy of Arenberg-Meppen in Hanover and Prussia. At times the short list of mediatized "real dukes" was greatly enhanced by the presence of the ducal families of Nassau and Augustenburg, even if the claims of the Augustenburgs, originally abgeteilte Herren, of having been sovereign dukes, were challenged. Perhaps they are better classed as "sovereign ducal personalists" like the Leuchtenbergs.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 12:24:28 PM by Фёдор Петрович »

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #287 on: January 09, 2011, 02:01:55 PM »
Maybe that is why there is no wedding photos...

Offline Gabriella

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #288 on: January 14, 2011, 04:18:50 AM »
Maybe that is why there is no wedding photos...

That`s not the reason.

I consider they were destroyed with the Neues Palais Sept. 11th 1944.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 04:26:58 AM by Gabriella »

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #289 on: January 16, 2011, 01:19:46 PM »
Not one survived as postcard ? I am sure he would have sent them to their relatives in England, Germany & Russia...and yet ?

Offline violetta

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #290 on: January 17, 2011, 02:58:40 PM »
Eleanor was of course a "mere" Serene Highness so when she accepted  Ernst Ludwig`s marriqage proposal she obviously married up. Though she was not someone significant, it was not DEFINITLY a morganatic marriage. The future Wilhelm II also married a "small indignificant" princess. Ernst Ludwih was a GD Highnss, wasn`t he? Was there any law prohibiting him to marry a Serene Hughness?

Ernst Ludwig preferred living in Wolfsgarten to living in New Palace, didn`t he? Do you by any chance know why? New Palace was his personal proprerty built on princess Alice`s dowry so it wasn`t confiscated after 1918, was it?But still he preferrred Wolfsgarten.When you at pictures of EL and his family ( with Victoria Melita and Onor) you see that many of them were taken in Wolfsgarten, not in NewPalalce. Didn`t EL like New Palace?

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #291 on: January 17, 2011, 04:40:01 PM »
Ernst Ludwig was a GD Highnss, wasn`t he?
Only while a prince. As grand duke he was a HRH.

Quote
Was there any law prohibiting him to marry a Serene Hughness?
Although the constitution left it up to the Grand Duke to decide what exactly constituted an equal marriage, descent from which was a requirement for eligibility to succeed, it was generally understood to be with a member of a reigning or mediatized house. (Officially, according to the German Acts of Confederation, this also included mediatized comital houses like the Hessian Erbachs, who were mere Illustrious Highnesses. Marriages between reigning families and Illustrious Highnesses almost never happened (and they were not included on the Habsburgs's list of eligible spouse material). Our Geheimer Justizrat in fürstlichem Privatrecht, Marc,  concluded in another thread with the interpretation that it came to mean that nobody could say: Euwh, I can't marry this Serene Highness, her mother was only an Illustrious Highness. In other words: Being a mere Illustrious Highness was no valid ground for discrimination!

BTW there were a very few Serene Highnesses who were of the lower nobility and thus not eligible. To put it a rather tongue-in-cheek and hypothetically: If gay marriage had been legal back then and Ernst-Ludwig wanted to marry Wilhelm II's "intimate friend" Philipp zu Eulenburg, who as a new-minted Fürst was a Serene Highness, he couldn't, Eulenburg's Serene Highness-ness wasn't of the right sort. :-)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 04:49:30 PM by Фёдор Петрович »

Offline violetta

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #292 on: January 17, 2011, 05:55:26 PM »



princess margaret of hesse (nee geddes) with johanna after her parents` death

Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #293 on: February 11, 2011, 12:35:28 PM »

Georg Donatus and Ludwig in Russian shirts


Offline Sara Araújo

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #294 on: October 12, 2011, 01:26:34 PM »
I don't know if this has been posted before, it's a postcard showing Ernest and Eleanor with their sons from 1909:

http://www.akpool.co.uk/postcards/136701-postcard-grossherzogspaar-v-hessen-mit-kindern
Natalie Paley website:

http://nataliepaley.webs.com/

Offline Ilana

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #295 on: October 13, 2011, 08:25:03 AM »
Sort of poignant that I'm going to be speaking about this bridal pair at the Eurohistory conference this weekend.
So long and thanks for all the fish

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #296 on: October 13, 2011, 09:10:51 AM »
Good luck with your presentation. Break a leg ! :-P

Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #297 on: November 16, 2012, 10:16:11 AM »

In memoriam   16. 11. 1937 - 2012

Eleonore Großherzogin von Hessen und bei Rhein

Georg Donatus und Cécile Erbgroßherzog und Erbgroßherzogin von Hessen und bei Rhein

Ludwig und Alexander Prinzen von Hessen und bei Rhein

Joachim Riedesel Freiherr zu Eisenbach

Lina Hahn

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #298 on: November 16, 2012, 10:58:47 AM »
I think Onor needs a biographer.

Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig (Ernie), Grand Duchess Eleanor (Onor) & family
« Reply #299 on: November 16, 2012, 12:30:24 PM »
WOW!! i just realized that Little Ella and  Onor, Georg Donatus and Cecilie died in the same day, just years after!!. Thats incredible and horryfying!

RIP all of them!

Courtesy of Grand Duchess Ally

"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

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