Author Topic: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram  (Read 28552 times)

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Yseult

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Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« on: February 21, 2007, 06:44:57 AM »
Hi!
I became curious about princess Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska, born in Landshut, on May 1784. She was a daughter of Duke Wilhelm and his wife Maria Anna von Birkenfeld, and also a  younger sister of Pius Augustus, duke in Bavaria, father of the famous duke Max.
Marie Elisabeth was married with Louis Alexander Berthier, one of the napoleonic marshals. He was created prince of Wagram and duke of Neufchâtel, I believe. Berthier was madly in love with his mistress, Madame Visconti, but Napoleon forced him to marry a bavarian princess. The marshal killed himself at Schloss Banz, Bamberg, seven years after the wedding with Elisabeth. She lived until 1849.
Portraits will be welcomed!! ;)

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2007, 08:10:19 AM »
It is very hard to find some information about Maria Elisabeth. I've never seen a portrait of her.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Gretchen

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 08:37:42 AM »
The portrait on www.royaltyguide.nl isn´t hers?

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2007, 08:43:09 AM »
The portrait on www.royaltyguide.nl isn´t hers?

No, that's Auguste Ferdinande Princess of Bavaria, née Archduchess of Austria and Princess of Tuscany.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Gretchen

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2007, 08:46:55 AM »
Tst, tst.

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2007, 09:34:56 AM »
The only information I have about Maria Elisabeth can be found in Die Herzöge in Bayern by Witzleben. As far as I remember, Maria Elisabeth was very close to her father Wilhelm and wrote him many letter during her time in France. In one of her letters she laughed about the amounts of food the people at the Bavarian court were used to eat.

Her husband Berthier was laid to rest at the ducal crypt in Tegernsee. The guide there once said: Just look at the tomb. Berthier must have been very tall.  ::)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 09:39:19 AM by MarieCharlotte »
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2007, 09:54:31 AM »
Hi!
I became curious about princess Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska, born in Landshut, on May 1784. She was a daughter of Duke Wilhelm and his wife Maria Anna von Birkenfeld, and also a  younger sister of Pius Augustus, duke in Bavaria, father of the famous duke Max.
Marie Elisabeth was married with Louis Alexander Berthier, one of the napoleonic marshals. He was created prince of Wagram and duke of Neufchâtel, I believe. Berthier was madly in love with his mistress, Madame Visconti, but Napoleon forced him to marry a bavarian princess. The marshal killed himself at Schloss Banz, Bamberg, seven years after the wedding with Elisabeth. She lived until 1849.
Portraits will be welcomed!! ;)

I know that I am a bit fussy now: Actually Maria Elisabeth was Pius August's elder sister. She was born in 1784, Pius in 1786. Maria Anna also gave birth to a stillborn son. And I don't know if we can call her a "Bavarian Princess". Her father Wilhelm was Pfalzgraf von Birkenfeld-Gelnhausen and in 1799 he received the title Duke in Bavaria.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 09:59:11 AM by MarieCharlotte »
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline britt.25

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2007, 10:18:48 AM »
She always interested me, because most of the descendants of the Prince Murat- family do also descend from her. So the todays Murats carry bavarian blood as well, which is somewhere very fascinating to me.  It´s a pity that I have never found much info in Marshall Berthier´s wife. It´s also a pity that the pictureon the side royaltyguide is not her, but Auguste Ferdinanda. Why did they put a wrong pic there?? I would have been very interested in seing any picture of her, but I have never found any.  :P
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Yseult

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2007, 04:50:37 PM »
It´s strange the lack of portraits. The wedding between Berthier and Elisabeth was one of the goals of Napoleon, he was proud enough since I could marry one of his marshals with a princess. I always wondered how Elisabeth felt. Berthier was the most unhappy groom...he really loved his mistress, Mme Visconti. And after seven years of marriage, the strange death of Berthier made Elisabeth a widow. It´s a sad story.

In the Memoirs of Constant, I have found one reference to the duke, his duchess and their children, Pius (who fathered later duke Max) and Elisabeth. Constant says that

"[...] The Duchess must have been a very beautiful woman; she has a fine figure and a very noble air. Prince Pius, her son, is just at the most disadvantageous age, between childhood and youth. The Emperor [Napoleon, of course] has laughed a good deal at his little legs, which have all they can do to support his small body, overladen with orders and grand cordons. They made a droll little caricature of him. The princess Elisabeth is not pretty, but I think that if she were better dressed she would be well-shaped. She is very polite and very talkative, a thing which scandalizes Napoleon. At dinner she was placed between him and Eugène de Beauharnais: accustomed to her father´s little court , and to that of the Elector of Bavaria, she is simple enough not to be at all intimidated in speaking to Bonaparte"

By the way, all that I have is a portrait of the wife of Duke Wilhelm, Maria Anna von Zweibrücken-Birkenfeld, sister of Maximilian Joseph, Elector and later first king of Bavaria. Maria Anna was, of course, the mother of Pius and Elisabeth:



« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 05:20:21 PM by Yseult »

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2007, 01:35:13 AM »
I just read that Marie Elisabeth was seen as a possible bride for Emperor Franz I. after his second wife Maria Theresia had died in 1807.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 04:23:17 AM by MarieCharlotte »
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline britt.25

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2007, 02:18:00 AM »
It´s strange the lack of portraits. The wedding between Berthier and Elisabeth was one of the goals of Napoleon, he was proud enough since I could marry one of his marshals with a princess. I always wondered how Elisabeth felt. Berthier was the most unhappy groom...he really loved his mistress, Mme Visconti. And after seven years of marriage, the strange death of Berthier made Elisabeth a widow. It´s a sad story.

In the Memoirs of Constant, I have found one reference to the duke, his duchess and their children, Pius (who fathered later duke Max) and Elisabeth. Constant says that

"[...] The Duchess must have been a very beautiful woman; she has a fine figure and a very noble air. Prince Pius, her son, is just at the most disadvantageous age, between childhood and youth. The Emperor [Napoleon, of course] has laughed a good deal at his little legs, which have all they can do to support his small body, overladen with orders and grand cordons. They made a droll little caricature of him. The princess Elisabeth is not pretty, but I think that if she were better dressed she would be well-shaped. She is very polite and very talkative, a thing which scandalizes Napoleon. At dinner she was placed between him and Eugène de Beauharnais: accustomed to her father´s little court , and to that of the Elector of Bavaria, she is simple enough not to be at all intimidated in speaking to Bonaparte"

By the way, all that I have is a portrait of the wife of Duke Wilhelm, Maria Anna von Zweibrücken-Birkenfeld, sister of Maximilian Joseph, Elector and later first king of Bavaria. Maria Anna was, of course, the mother of Pius and Elisabeth:






Thanks for the explanations and the portrait. I already knew the portrait of Maria Anna, and I think she was quite pretty. I think this is the only one of her, isn´t it? Until now I have seen only this one, where she is very young. I haven´t  seen her as an older woman... The description of the marriage is interesting, too, so it´s strange that she was never painted, even when Berthier was pictured quite often. There are quite a couple of pictures painted of him, but never together with his wife, family or children.
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline britt.25

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2007, 02:26:47 AM »
I just read that Marie Elisabeth was seen as a possible bride for Emperor Franz I. after his third wife Maria Ludovica had died in 1816.

I didn´t know this as well. Thanks ;). Franz really wasn´t very lucky with his wives: all died so early, even when Maria Theresia gave him a lot of children. I have read, when he married Karoline of Bavaria (the fourth wife) he shall have been very pleased about the healthy looking of the princess and shall have said in German: "Da hab ich nicht in ein paar Jahren wieder eine Leich´!" ::). Do you know, why he married Karoline and not Marie Elisabeth, even when it was thought about this marriage, or was it simply an "idea", which was never very concrete?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 02:28:55 AM by britt.25 »
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2007, 04:29:43 AM »
Do you know, why he married Karoline and not Marie Elisabeth, even when it was thought about this marriage, or was it simply an "idea", which was never very concrete?

I mad a mistake. There was the idea of a marriage between Emperor Franz I. and Marie Elisabeth in 1807 after Maria Theresia, his second wife, had died.

This is what I found in Die Herzöge in Bayern:
Auf der Suche nach einer Gemahlin für den 1807 verwitweten Kaiser Franz I. von Österreich hatte man in Wien vorübergehend an Marie Elisabeth gedacht, oder an Max Josephs Tochter Charlotte. Doch unterblieb damals eine Verbindung mit Bayern, wahrscheinlich aus politischen Gründen. Erst 1816 sollte sie zustande kommen - nun mit Charlotte -, nachdem Napoleons Stern untergegangen und Franz I., der inzwischen Maria Ludovika von Modena geheiratet hatte, abermals Witwer geworden war.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

YaBB_Jose

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2007, 11:34:13 AM »
Hello

I am in search of pics related to Elizabeth.
1. Amélie d'Arenberg oo Dke Pius
2. Christian III Zweibrucken and wife caroline of Nassau
3. Their daughter Caroline, pss of Hesse-Darmstadt
4. Maria Anne Camasse, wife of Christian IV
5. Frederich-Michael and wife Maria Franziska v. Sulzbach
6. Carl II of Pfalz-Zweibrucken  and Maria Amalia of Bavaria wife of Fredeick-Augustus of Saxony

Thanks in advance

Yseult

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Re: Marie Elisabeth Amalie Franziska of Bavaria, princess Wagram
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2007, 05:03:07 PM »
Hello

I am in search of pics related to Elizabeth.
1. Amélie d'Arenberg oo Dke Pius
2. Christian III Zweibrucken and wife caroline of Nassau
3. Their daughter Caroline, pss of Hesse-Darmstadt
4. Maria Anne Camasse, wife of Christian IV
5. Frederich-Michael and wife Maria Franziska v. Sulzbach
6. Carl II of Pfalz-Zweibrucken  and Maria Amalia of Bavaria wife of Fredeick-Augustus of Saxony

Thanks in advance

Sorry, José, but I only have portraits of Friedrich Michael of Birkenfeld-Zweibrücken and his wife, Maria Franziska Dorothea von Sulzbach. These are: