Author Topic: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov  (Read 7669 times)

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Offline vladm

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The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« on: February 28, 2007, 12:57:34 PM »
I am just curios, he was one of the most powerful and wealthiest person in Russia, and yet he killed Rasputin. Browsing through his book "The End of Rasputin", I found interesting information about situation in Russia back in 1905-1918, also Felix's opinion on Russian nobility.
Now, I am not an expert, but some of the statements he made, start me think about authenticity of this book, any opinion on this?

Here my thoughts:
Book was printed in 1926 and prince Dimitri Mirsky (Svyatopolk-Mirsky) was in exile, he returned back to USSR 1932, and was coauthor of infamous "Vyrubova diaries", I think style in some degree correlates to "The End of Rasputin".
Maybe I am too much in to conspiracy theory, but if this is true - we have the answer to our question: "Why autopsy report is so different from Yussupov's  story?"
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Offline Belochka

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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2007, 09:21:18 PM »
I am just curios, he was one of the most powerful and wealthiest person in Russia, and yet he killed Rasputin. Browsing through his book "The End of Rasputin", I found interesting information about situation in Russia back in 1905-1918, also Felix's opinion on Russian nobility.
Now, I am not an expert, but some of the statements he made, start me think about authenticity of this book, any opinion on this?

Here my thoughts:
Book was printed in 1926 and prince Dimitri Mirsky (Svyatopolk-Mirsky) was in exile, he returned back to USSR 1932, and was coauthor of infamous "Vyrubova diaries", I think style in some degree correlates to "The End of Rasputin".
Maybe I am too much in to conspiracy theory, but if this is true - we have the answer to our question: "Why autopsy report is so different from Yussupov's  story?"

Vladm my old copy of Конец Распутина (The  End of Rasputin) was printed in Paris in 1927. Yusupov wrote the manuscript in 1926 as he signed off in his introduction.

It is quite possible that Svyatopolk-Mirsky assisted with Felix's memoirs. Somewhere I read that Felix's wife had reviewed the contents to ensure not too much would be revealed to cause unnecessary problems.

Few have seen Kosorotov's autopsy report. I have two versions - one that was published in the form of a letter written by the medical examiner in Russia during Kerensky's era. The second version which is preserved in the medical military academy has only come to light recently and was first revealed in Russia by the historian Oleg Shishkin. There are notable differences between the two.

Yusupov would never write the truth of what happened that night and what his active participation was. Thus we only have the Kosorotov report to rely on despite its intrinsic problems. We shall never know who inflicted all the wounds, except to say that it was strictly a Russian matter.

BTW which autopsy report have you seen?

Margarita
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Offline Phil_tomaselli

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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2007, 04:18:05 AM »
Whilst I have to agree that we will never know who inflicted all Rasputin's wounds I have to query that it was "strictly a Russian matter".  There seems to me inconvertible proof of the involvement, at least in the planning and covering up of events, of the Britons Oswald Rayner amd Stephen Alley, Intelligence officers with the British Intelligence Mission.

Rayner is named in Y's book and even did the English translation...........

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Offline Belochka

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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2007, 07:59:02 AM »
Whilst I have to agree that we will never know who inflicted all Rasputin's wounds I have to query that it was "strictly a Russian matter".  There seems to me inconvertible proof of the involvement, at least in the planning and covering up of events, of the Britons Oswald Rayner amd Stephen Alley, Intelligence officers with the British Intelligence Mission.

Rayner is named in Y's book and even did the English translation...........

Phil Tomaselli

With respect Phil I must disagree with you. Your evidence is contestable. Beletski (Minister of Internal affairs, and former Director of Police) has provided excellent evidence that the entire plan was planned well in advance of Yusupov offering his services.

There was no cover-up - it was all quite in the open, including the formal admission of guilt declared before the Minister of Justice, Makarov co-signed by Dmitri, Felix and Purishkevich on 17 December. I have that joint declaration, which is interesting in that it only stipulates joint liability.

Rayner was an acquaintance of Yusupov, therefore any mention of his name in Y's memoirs hardly constitutes proof of any complicity.

My Russian edition (2 books) was translated from the French and is introduced by Y's grandaughter Ksenya Sferi-Sheremetieva.

My question is: Why would the British want to become involved in this matter at all? There were a number of self-serving opportunists who gladly accepted the challenge.

The forensic evidence discounts your hypothesis.

Margarita
  :)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 08:02:46 AM by Belochka »


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Offline Phil_tomaselli

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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2007, 02:17:05 PM »
Belochka

For the sake of the general public I merely mention that I've PM'd you and hope we can get the discussion out in public  shortly, prefereably on the Rasputin Inquest thread.

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Offline Reco

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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2007, 08:52:57 PM »


This book written by Edvard Radzinsky published in 2001 (in French) claims that it is the GD Dimitri which drew on Raspoutine. Raspoutine died, not because of the balls or the poison but drowned.

Reco

Offline vladm

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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2007, 12:54:16 AM »
Reco, I think we have one more publicity stunt here. I hope, it would be possible, to see reports from communist archive, without cuts.

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Offline Belochka

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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2007, 02:49:38 AM »
Rasputin did not drown.

Radzinsky failed to understand what he read.

Margarita
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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2007, 07:52:38 AM »
Belochka,

I know that you have the coroner's inquest report.  I also know that you are holding information that you will post on the "Inquest" site, but that looks to be far into the future as your fellow council has been so busy.  Many of us would like to know more about it while we wait.

However, Radzinsky is not the only one to have claimed that in the end Rasputin was alive when he was thrown into the Neva and that water was found in his lungs.  Translation:  he was still breathing and inhaled water and therefore drowned.

I hate to bring up "the gospel according to"  Massie, because he is not my favorite source, but he states on page 378 of Nicholas & Alexandra  "Three days later, when the body was found, the lungs were filled with water.  Gregory Rasputin, his bloodstream filled with poison, his body punctured by bullets, had died by drowning."

I have been trying to get a copy of The End of Rasputin by Felix Yussoupov, but they are expensive and not easy to find.


Offline vladm

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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2007, 01:39:07 PM »
Alixz, here we go, the original text by Felix Yussupov

http://www.virtualpushkin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=115&Itemid=1&lang=rus

I will try automatic translator, and we will see, how it will go, I will publish link later.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 01:42:56 PM by vladm »
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Offline vladm

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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2007, 02:20:37 PM »
You can't avoid our past.
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Offline Belochka

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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2007, 12:21:47 AM »
Belochka,

I know that you have the coroner's inquest report.  I also know that you are holding information that you will post on the "Inquest" site, but that looks to be far into the future as your fellow council has been so busy.  Many of us would like to know more about it while we wait.

However, Radzinsky is not the only one to have claimed that in the end Rasputin was alive when he was thrown into the Neva and that water was found in his lungs.  Translation:  he was still breathing and inhaled water and therefore drowned.

I hate to bring up "the gospel according to"  Massie, because he is not my favorite source, but he states on page 378 of Nicholas & Alexandra  "Three days later, when the body was found, the lungs were filled with water.  Gregory Rasputin, his bloodstream filled with poison, his body punctured by bullets, had died by drowning."

Neither Radzinsky and Massie are medically trained to fully comprehend what exactly was meant by the autopsy finding - the presence of fluid in the lungs.

In the absence of any laboratory evalution the presence of river water can not be confirmed.

Nor were toxicology assays performed to determine the presence/absence of poisonous substances in R.'s system.

The fact that Rasputin remained alive as he cascaded into the icy water of the Malaya Nevka R. -  does not mean, in this specific case, that he drowned.

At least Radzinsky concurs with Massie that R. was still alive ... sorry Alixz but any further details will have to remain with me for the time being.  ;)

Margarita
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Re: The End of Rasputin - book by Felix Yussupov
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2007, 08:31:37 AM »
Vladm,  Thank you.   :)

Belochka,

I guess I just don't think like a lawyer.  But you are right.  A lot has been assumed on the evidence presented in books and diaries by those who think they know what happened.  And as I should remember, eyewitnesses are famously inacurate in their memories of any incident.   :-\