Author Topic: Romanov Livery Colors  (Read 8591 times)

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Offline Melly13

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Romanov Livery Colors
« on: February 06, 2006, 07:13:50 PM »
Well I have attempted to do a search, and I was met with no results, so here it goes. I fully apologize if this has been talked of before, but I was unable to find the answer I looked for.

I am working on a project, and rather then highlighting my events in any color, I wanted to highlight these events in the colors of the Romanov’s. I am not fully sure how to phrase this, but I know the Tudors where White and Green, so what where the Romanov’s colors?

I fully apologize again, if this has been discussed, as well as if this is inappropriate to ask. I am not sure (cannot remember) if you have a homework policy, but considering that this is not truly homework, just an added bonus I wish to add, I figured that it was not as large of a deal.

I searched the internet briefly, and my copy of Flight of the Romanovs does not mention any specific colors. Based on a picture of Sergei Alexandrovich's belongings I believe that their colors were White and Blue. If some one could confirm this that would be great.

Thanks,
Mel-

David_Pritchard

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Re: Romanov Livery Colors
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2006, 01:15:47 AM »
Quote
Well I have attempted to do a search, and I was met with no results, so here it goes. I fully apologize if this has been talked of before, but I was unable to find the answer I looked for.

I am working on a project, and rather then highlighting my events in any color, I wanted to highlight these events in the colors of the Romanov’s. I am not fully sure how to phrase this, but I know the Tudors where White and Green, so what where the Romanov’s colors?

I fully apologize again, if this has been discussed, as well as if this is inappropriate to ask. I am not sure (cannot remember) if you have a homework policy, but considering that this is not truly homework, just an added bonus I wish to add, I figured that it was not as large of a deal.

I searched the internet briefly, and my copy of Flight of the Romanovs does not mention any specific colors. Based on a picture of Sergei Alexandrovich's belongings I believe that their colors were White and Blue. If some one could confirm this that would be great.

Thanks,
Mel-


Dear Mel,

I have been waiting for a question like yours for quite a long time. The Imperial House used the livery colours of Argent, Or and Sable, known in common parlance as white, yellow and black. Please note that I wrote the Imperial House rather than the Romanovs and that is because if they were the liveries of the Romanovs rather than the Imperial House then the standard British or French formula for determining the livries was not used. This however is not unusual as the present British Royal House does not use it's patrilineal livery colours, Or and Sable (gold and black) of Saxony, but rather the Or and Gules (gold and red) of the Scottish Royal House.

The Romanovs may have taken the livery colours from the border of that family's coat-of-arms which is Sable, eight lion's heads erased alternating Or and Argent.

The other possible origin of the livery colours of the Imperial House is that they were already in use by the previous ruling family when the Romanovs came to power in 1613. The Rurikid dynasty of Ivan IV already used a flag of the colours stripped horizontally black over yellow over white, which came from the bicephalous eagle arms that were adopted after the marriage of Grand Duke Vasily III of Moscow and Princess Sophia of the Byzantine Empire.

I hope that this answers your question.

David

David_Pritchard

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Re: Romanov Livery Colors
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2006, 03:36:02 PM »
I should mention that the gold of the Imperial Liveries often takes on an orangish tint, as can be seen on the fringe of the Emperor's Banner illustrated below.



Additional information on the livery colours may be found at this link: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ru_bow.html

David
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by David_Pritchard »

Offline Melly13

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Re: Romanov Livery Colors
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2006, 05:30:40 PM »
Thank you David, this was all extreamly helpful. Unfourtunatly i had handed in the project before i recieved your reply. Oh well, no truly big deal. But thank you fro responding, this had been one of those little things that would irk me until I found out the answer.

Mel-

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Romanov Livery Colors
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2010, 02:34:24 AM »
What a fascinating topic! Together with banners, badges, monogramms, battle cries and other para-armorial symbols, livery colours are another cool reminder of the striking similarities between (bastard) feudalism and sports supporters and street gangs!

the standard British or French formula for determining the livries was not used
Aha, let me see if I have understood it correctly: The ground color of the shield itself is the main colour used for the livery. The colour of the main charge on the shield is the second colour, used for collars, cuffs and trousers / breeches.

Quote
This however is not unusual as the present British Royal House does not use it's patrilineal livery colours, Or and Sable (gold and black) of Saxony, but rather the Or and Gules (gold and red) of the Scottish Royal House.
Firstly, don't you rather think they are derived from the arms of England, which are gold on red, rather than the Scottish arms, which are red on gold?

BTW here are som examples of national and princely livery colours, most of them from "A Treatise on Heraldry British and foreign. With English and French glossaries." by John Woodward:
Austria: Black and gold.
Anhalt: Green
Baden: Gold and red
Bavaria: White, blue, white.
Belgium: Black, yellow, red.
Denmark: Red, white, red are the national livery clours, but I think the royal lackeys only wear red. But I've also heard gold and red described as the Oldenburgian livery colours.
France: The Bourbons mainly used white, but various French Kings have used blue (St. Martin's colour), red (St Denis and the l'Oiflamme's colour) and white (the Virgin and Jeanne d'Arc's colour), so these three colours were regarded as typical French even before the Revolution. Napoleon's imperial livery colours were green and gold.
German Empire: Red, white, black.
Hanover: Black, yellow, white. (Where did the black come from???)
Hesse: White, red, white.
Italy: Green, white, red. These are the national colours, did the House of Savoy have others, perhaps only red and white?
Liechtenstein: Red and gold? or blue?
Lippe: Red and gold.
Mecklenburg: Red, yellow, blue.
Monaco: Red and white?
Netherlands: Orange (and white and blue, as in oranje, blanje, blauw?)
Nassau: Orange, blue, orange?  Or blue and gold?
Norway: Red, white, blue.
Oldenburg: Red and gold? or blue? (Identical confusion between arms and flag as in Liechtenstein.)
Kingdom of Portugal: Blue and white
Prussia: Black, white, black.
Russian Empire : Silver, gold, black.
Saxon Duchies: White, green.
Saxe-Weimar: Gold, green, black. (The only Saxon livery colours that correspond to the exact arms.)
Saxony: White, green, white.
Spain: Red, gold (and red?)
Sweden: Blue and gold. (The only example of 100 % correspondense between arms, flag, national and livery colours.)
UK: The Plantagenets allegedly used red and white, the Yorkists murrey (mauve) and blue, the Lancastrians blue and white, the Tudors white and green, the Stuarts red and gold, the Hanoverians red and blue?, but red and gold (as in the arms of Lüneburg) before their accession in Britain?)
Württemberg: Black, red, black.

The flags of the monarchies in the German Empire correspond very well with the dynasty's livery colours.
In the 19th century state employees in Central and Eastern Europe, from generals to postmen, usually wore the livery colours in a small cocade on the front of the ubiquitous cap.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 03:06:58 AM by Фёдор Петрович »

Offline antisocialist87

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Re: Romanov Livery Colors
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 07:48:19 PM »
This thread is absolutely amazing. This was something I was wondering about myself.

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Romanov Livery Colors
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2011, 09:21:49 PM »
wow I would to see someone colour the uniforms in a black and white photo

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