Marguerite d'Anjou

[FaithWhiteRose]

According to Alison Weir in 'The Princes in the Tower' Richard was having an affair with Elizabeth of York (his, erm, niece). Some say it was shortly after Anne died, but it was also possible that it was when Anne lay on her bed dying. The world will enver know. 

[Prince_Lieven]

According to Alison Weir in 'The Princes in the Tower' Richard was having an affair with Elizabeth of York (his, erm, niece). Some say it was shortly after Anne died, but it was also possible that it was when Anne lay on her bed dying. The world will enver know. 

I think Kim will back me up on this - there was never any evidence of an affair between Richard and his niece, it was just a rumour put about to discredit him. Weir is highly biased in that book and can't really be trusted to look at things objectively. However I wouldn't have thought that even she would go so far as to openly state that Richard was Elizabeth were having an affair as if it is fact.

[Kimberly]

I admire a lot of Weir's work but the "Princes in the Tower" is appallingly one-sided. Try reading Paul Murray Kendall's tome on Richard III it is IMO definitive. Also, try and get your hands on the only bio of Anne Neville by Michael Hicks.

[Kimberly]

it's inevitable 

there are records of catherine and arthur actually liking each other. are there any such accounts on anne and edward? of them liking/disliking each other...? (although i have a feeling that if they disliked each other they probably wouldn't have made it public)

That's a really good question! Now I'm gonna be doing research about this 24/7, surfing the net, checking books out of the library . . . don't worry, happens all the time. But it depends what Edward's personality was. Anne sure didn't like her second husband, Richard of Gloucester, who had grown up in violent times and was unsuprisingly a violent man who was unfaithful to his wife. In 'The Constant Princess' Arthur is this responsible and gentle person, and that's what Katherine likes about him. What if 17 yr old Edward was a gentle kind of person? How as Anne's personality? I think we should divert our attention from Katherine and Arthur for a while and focus on this.

Where is your source regarding Anne not liking Richard? Just interested you understand


Also, where is your source for your comment that he was unfaithful to her

[FaithWhiteRose]

I admire a lot of Weir's work but the "Princes in the Tower" is appallingly one-sided. Try reading Paul Murray Kendall's tome on Richard III it is IMO definitive. Also, try and get your hands on the only bio of Anne Neville by Michael Hicks.

Thnx, I'll try that. I've been researching all this for a very long time, but compared to you guys I'm a beginner. 

[Kimberly]

Hey FaithWhiteRose, its great that you are interested in this era of history and you have perked up the Tudor topics so carry on. You seem to be interested about Richard of Eastwell? I will dig out some info on him and post it for you

[FaithWhiteRose]

Hey FaithWhiteRose, its great that you are interested in this era of history and you have perked up the Tudor topics so carry on. You seem to be interested about Richard of Eastwell? I will dig out some info on him and post it for you

THNX! 

[Kimberly]

FaithWhiteRose, here is a very good piece about Richard of Eastwell;
http://www.r3.org/bookcase/misc/richardofeastwell.html

[FaithWhiteRose]

Thank You. I found the information really helpful 

[ilyala]

the richard and elizabeth thing is a nasty rumour and it basically referred to him wanting to marry her NOT to them having an affair. knowing what we know of elizabeth it's highly unlikely. she was way too sensible for this kind of thing.

for his part, richard sure loved anne neville. it's not so sure that she returned his feelings but he had strong feelings for her. i am curious about her point of view (someone who was on the sidelines of every camp in the wars of the roses) but unfortunately we'll never know.

it would make a good book... *hint*

[Kimberly]

Well, Ilyala, there is a "new" book out there- a bio of Anne Neville. IMO its crapola, written by an anti Richard author who fills it with such contentious  terms such as "Richard was a serial incester", "autocratic" and ....YES .... HUMPBACKED
However, it has its interesting (small) bits when he goes on about the age of majority, widows rights etc. He also contends that Richard and Anne were never legally married because they didn't have the adequate dispensations from the pope.
Why would Richard want to divorce Anne when he only had to wait such a short time before she died (and it was well known that her illness was hopelessly terminal)?
Why would Richard chose as his next wife, an acknowledged bastard (Elizabeth of York was just as much a bastard as her brothers which was the whole basis of him taking the throne anyway). Also, this would be Uncle marrying niece....surely incestuous.
It is such a shame that women, no matter who they were, were not thought significant enough for comment in those days,..jeeze, we don't even know the birth dates for a lot of them. There aren't even household accounts extant for Anne Neville. What a shame, she had such a fascinating but short life and we know next to nothing about it.

[FaithWhiteRose]

it would make a good book... *hint*

hmmmmm . . . once i'm finished with the current one i'm working on, and after i do some reserach i'll start.    Thank you for the information, and I think I sort of got confused since I was taking Ms. Weir's book as a reliable source when it was highly opinionated. Other books I just sort of skimmed through. Anyways, thank you for the inspiration . . . i'll dedicate it to you  JK 

[ilyala]

while i am no good with writing and stuff, i would very much LOVE to help with historical ideas and guidelines

i can think of SO many interesting stories in history. as in TRUE stories, that no-one would need to modify, all we'd have to do is maybe add a little interpretation (but within the facts). they would be SO much more interesting than soap operas.