Author Topic: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures  (Read 173862 times)

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Tom

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2005, 04:14:28 PM »
There is a charming description of the Yussupov family in exile in Paris in Princess Tatiana Metternich's book "A Purgatory of Fools"
Princess Tatiana was a Russian aristocrat whose family fled the revolution when she was small. After wandering a bit, she ended up in Nazi Germany, was close to the Resistance and married Prince Paul Metternich. She and her husband seemed to know a good portion of the middle european aristocracy and there are interesting pictures and comments (she tends to be kind, but, I believe, perceptive) about them and some royals, including the Russian imperial family.
Her description of the Yussupovs pictures them while they still lived lavishly although she makes it clear that harder times were on the way because of the Prince's spending and generosity.  She admired Princess Zinaida greatly for the qualities which have been discussed.
Princess Metternich's book is fascinating and gives a absorbing picture of a group of aristocrats in Germany before and just after the defeat of Hitler.  The Metternichs had to flee the communists--the second time for Tatiana--but fortunately they had a valuable estate in the West.
     Tom

Offline ashanti01

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2005, 06:42:47 PM »
Does anyone know how Princess Zinaida felt after the revolution? I mean to lose everything the way they did must have been just tough on her. Did she ever write or talk to anyone about it? Any records of any sort?

Tom

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2005, 08:22:53 PM »
Princess Tatiana Wassilltchikoff, later Princess Metternich, relates in her book that she stayed with Princess Zinaida for a short time while she was recovering from an illness and that the Princess Zinaida spoke to her "of bygone days". Princess Tatiana considered that her hostess was sharing  confidences and Princess Zinaida told of her disturbing dreams which predicted disasters and of the death of her son.
Princess Tatiana also remembers from an earlier visit as a child to the exiled Yussupova family that Irina stared with "rapt admiration" as Felix sang for guests, then broke the spell with a  "dry remark"  This must have been one of the most interesting of marriages but it seems one of mutual devotion.

yusupovs_fan

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2005, 01:55:24 AM »
Does anyone know, where exactly did they live in Rome and where did they get the money to support themselves and their granddaughter?

Annie

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2005, 06:34:54 AM »
Interesting stories, Tom, thanks for posting. Felix also fancied himself claravoiyant (sp) I guess that's where he got it.

Kaitlin, I think they owned something there, and they sold jewelry and other belongings for support. I know at that time she was still giving Felix jewelry to sell so that must have been what she did. When old Felix died in 1928, Zenaida moved in with Felix and Irina in Paris.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

strom

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2005, 01:27:12 PM »
The problem with Zinaida is the problem with much of the family: when push came to shove they did not support the Sovereign.  I have read that Zinaida and the Empress were not on speaking terms after the murder of Father Gregory, which would be a normal consequence from the involvement of Felix in that crime.  (There is a reported audience where she made her pitch, and found the Empress cold.)  G.D. Elizabeth seemed to have been used as an intermediary between the Family and the Sovereigns probably in a ploy to gain time for the conspirators.  In any event, she seems to have been unable at this point to distinguish between the value of expediency and the call of eternity.  I expect she had time before the end to measure the true value of the former against the latter.
Zinaida was very beautiful and this is still on display in her marvelous portrit by Serov at the Russian Museum.  It is a masterpiece by one of the very greatest artists of that age.  

james_h

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2005, 08:18:32 PM »

Strom

I read your post and was rather offended by it. In my opinion there was no "problem" with Zinaida, or any one else in Russia.


Your view on Russian Aristocrats are bizarre and ignorant. The Russian aristocracy is not comparable with any other continental European aristocracy. Dukes (The most frequently highest aristocratic order in Europe) of Britain, France and Spain are not and have never been  Sovereign. The only comparable court in Europe to that of the Tsar, was the Kaiser's. The main difference being that the Russian Court was older and more prestigious. NO Court in  Europe was as full of mediatized royal families as was the Russian court. Germany with it's nouveau regalities hardly compairs favourably. The most Important Empire in Europe Ever was the Roman Empire. The eastern part (Byzantine) of which, with the extinction of the PALEOLOGOS  the Rurikovichi were next in seniority.

The sort of blindless devotion to a Sovereign that you speak of is more befitting to a British Baron than a Russian Prince.

The Yusupov's were not unique in their opinion of Nikolai II's ability or inability to rule and with his wifes almost comical inability/unwillingness to "fit in" to russian society. The Yusupovs as with any Russian Grandee Family had an awful lot to lose with the prospect of revolution. The only thing I am disappointed with is that the last Tsar and his immediate family were not removed from power and replaced with people (the vladimirovichi) of more ability.

Annie

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2005, 08:27:22 AM »
Quote
The problem with Zinaida is the problem with much of the family: when push came to shove they did not support the Sovereign.  I have read that Zinaida and the Empress were not on speaking terms after the murder of Father Gregory, which would be a normal consequence from the involvement of Felix in that crime.  (There is a reported audience where she made her pitch, and found the Empress cold.)  G.D. Elizabeth seemed to have been used as an intermediary between the Family and the Sovereigns probably in a ploy to gain time for the conspirators.  In any event, she seems to have been unable at this point to distinguish between the value of expediency and the call of eternity.  I expect she had time before the end to measure the true value of the former against the latter.
Zinaida was very beautiful and this is still on display in her marvelous portrit by Serov at the Russian Museum.  It is a masterpiece by one of the very greatest artists of that age.  


Both Zenaida and Ella had been 'disowned' by the Empress prior to Rasputin's murder. Each had spoken to her about stopping her involvement with Rasputin, and she dismissed them 'like a dog' as Ella said. Ella went there after she had turned Zenaida out declaring "I hope I never see this woman again." Alexandra never again spoke to Ella or Zenaida as long as she lived.

Offline ashanti01

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2005, 12:36:08 PM »
Do you think Zinaida died still feeling resentful towards Alexandra?

hikaru

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2005, 08:02:49 AM »
In previous message, there was a question why Tatiana , older syster of Zinaida, have died - she died of typhus.
Zynaida was very afraid that the damnation of Yussupovs transfered to female Yussupov too.
Zynaida built a chapel for the memory of beloved syster and wrote the will in which she said that
all great collection of treasures and artw should be passed to the State in case if Yusuppov family will have no heir.

Johnny

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2005, 02:15:36 PM »
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Do you think Zinaida died still feeling resentful towards Alexandra?

How could you even doubt that. I think if Zinaida (and many many others) could get their hands on Alix after the revolution, Alix would not come out alive. I would have done the same thing to her too. Just strangled her:-)

Offline ashanti01

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2005, 02:54:59 PM »
I was just wondering. I know several people usually forgive the person after they have died. After being killed in such a horrible way, I wasn't sure if she still felt resentful towards Alexandra.  ::)

Johnny

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2005, 07:08:16 AM »
Quote
I was just wondering. I know several people usually forgive the person after they have died. After being killed in such a horrible way, I wasn't sure if she still felt resentful towards Alexandra.  ::)

Well, my answer was rather speculative and based on common sense. I haven't read or heard anything about her later opinion on the whole thing. It is possible that she forgave Alexandra, although I'd really doubt it. Does anyone know anything more concrete about her later attitude towards the revolution and Alexandra's role in it?

Valmont

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2005, 09:57:44 AM »
Just use common sense. You lost EVERYTHING due to a revolution that you think was cause by someone's acts, and that that person was  killed by the revolucionaries.
If I was in Zenaida's shoes I would probably think that AliX should have been shot much earlier, and probably regreat about all the oportunities I had when I could have done it and I didn't....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Valmont »

Offline ashanti01

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Re: Princess Zenaida Yusupova - discussion and pictures
« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2005, 10:05:04 AM »
Quote
Just use common sense. You lost EVERYTHING due to a revolution that you think was cause by someone's acts, and that that person was  killed by the revolucionaries.
If I was in Zenaida's shoes I would probably think that AliX should have been shot much earlier, and probably regreat about all the oportunities she had when she could have done it and she didn't....



I can see where you are coming from and it makes sense. I just wasn't sure if there was any written records or anything that related to this.

Another thing that keeps bothering me is why if things were so bad in Russia, didn't the family move more of thier fortune out of the country?

I do recall reading that Nicholas wanted everyone to place thier fortunes into Russian banks, but still if you were at odd's with the Imperial family and knew things were very unstable, wouldn't you start to prepare for worst? But then again, I don't think anyone ever expected a full blown Revolution where they would lose it all.