Author Topic: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death  (Read 23355 times)

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Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2007, 10:58:38 PM »
Well, I'm sure Aleksey knew his health depended on Rasputin. Over time, he'd have noticed he felt better when he was around.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2007, 11:26:04 PM »
Finally found "who will help me" quote.
It is from Anna Virubova's later memoirs, Keisarinnan hovineiti.
My translation from Finnish:
When I went to the empress's room, shortly after news of Rasputin's murder had arrived, I heard Aleksei sobbing, hiding his head in the curtains: “Who will now help me when our friend is dead.”


... If Alexei was distraught over Rasputin's death, one would think there would be some corroboration to Madame Vyrubova's testimony.  It would have been recorded elsewhere.  Perhaps a mention in Nicholas' diary or one of the other court memoirs? 

Nicholas' diary doesn't mention anything about Alexei being distraught...

Nikolai rarely revealed any emotive issues in his diaries when members of his immediate family were involved.

Alexei was however spared the agony of attending Rasputin's funeral.

Margarita


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Offline Belochka

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2007, 01:06:50 AM »
Finally found "who will help me" quote.
It is from Anna Virubova's later memoirs, Keisarinnan hovineiti.
My translation from Finnish:
When I went to the empress's room, shortly after news of Rasputin's murder had arrived, I heard Aleksei sobbing, hiding his head in the curtains: “Who will now help me when our friend is dead.”

I had trouble believing the veracity of this statement allegedly observed by Taneeva ....


On 18 December Alexei writes 'At 3:40 to the station with Papa. We went for a walk, then at 4:30 set off for Tsarskoe Selo...' 19th December "Arrived at Ts. S at 5:30. Mama and sisters met us..."

Nikolai was informed by Alexandra, at 2 p.m. on December 19 that Rasputin's corpse was found. Nikolai accompanied by Alexei only re-united with the rest of the family (according to Spiridovich) at Tsarskoe Selo station at 6 p.m. that same day, before travelling back to the Palace in two cars .

The account kindly provided by tian79  is somewhat problematic because "shortly after the news had arrived" at the Palace, Alexei was still with his father on the train.

In the recent (2006) Russian language compilation relating to Taneeva (Vurubova) in the section titled "Pages of my Life' she is silent about Alexei's reaction.

RichC was correct that Nikolai was silent about Alexei's reaction. Spiridovich who was with Nikolai II and Alexei was also silent. 

It appears that there is probably no genuine evidence indicating what Alexei's true reaction was after he was informed by his father that Rasputin was dead. Frankly IMHO neither should there be.

Margarita





 


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Offline RichC

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2007, 09:27:24 AM »
Well, I'm sure Aleksey knew his health depended on Rasputin. Over time, he'd have noticed he felt better when he was around.

I disagree because unless I'm wrong, Rasputin wasn't actually around that much -- even when Alexei was sick.  At Spala he sent a telegram from Siberia.  Alexei MAY not have even known about the telegram.  It's possible his parents just told him to praise God for his recovery.

Also, it was Alexandra who was overwhelmingly convinced in Rasputin's effectiveness -- more so than anybody else, rather than Alexei.

TheAce1918

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2007, 12:16:42 PM »
It's a translation, so there's room for some variance there...

Gotcha.  :)

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2007, 03:11:45 AM »
Well, I'm sure Aleksey knew his health depended on Rasputin. Over time, he'd have noticed he felt better when he was around.

I disagree because unless I'm wrong, Rasputin wasn't actually around that much -- even when Alexei was sick.  At Spala he sent a telegram from Siberia.  Alexei MAY not have even known about the telegram.  It's possible his parents just told him to praise God for his recovery.

Also, it was Alexandra who was overwhelmingly convinced in Rasputin's effectiveness -- more so than anybody else, rather than Alexei.
I think Alix probably made sure Alexei knew he had Rasputin to thank for his recovery. I imagine she wanted his savior to have credit.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2007, 08:46:14 AM »
Nikolai rarely revealed any emotive issues in his diaries when members of his immediate family were involved.

Alexei was however spared the agony of attending Rasputin's funeral.


Nikolai's diary on 21 December 1916 states (in part) that "the whole family went out past the photography building and right into the field, where we witnessed a sad spectacle: the coffin with the body of unforgettable Grigory, who was killed by some scum on the night of Dec 17th at Yusupov's house, which had already been lowered into the grave." [my underlining]
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2007, 09:29:07 AM »
Nikolai rarely revealed any emotive issues in his diaries when members of his immediate family were involved.

Alexei was however spared the agony of attending Rasputin's funeral.


Nikolai's diary on 21 December 1916 states (in part) that "the whole family went out past the photography building and right into the field, where we witnessed a sad spectacle: the coffin with the body of unforgettable Grigory, who was killed by some scum on the night of Dec 17th at Yusupov's house, which had already been lowered into the grave." [my underlining]

General Spiridovich wrote in his diary that at 9 a.m. on the morning of the funeral two vehicles "arrived with their Majesties WITH FOUR DAUGHTERS." [My emphasis]

Margarita


« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 09:32:05 AM by Belochka »


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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2007, 03:09:19 PM »
Then it would seem we have a discrepancy. Whose word do you give more credibility to, Nikolai II or Spiridovich?
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2007, 03:18:24 PM »
From Olga Nikolaevna's diary:

"Wednesday 21 Dec.
At 9, we 4, Papa and Mama went to the place where Ania's Church is being built.  A Litia was served and Father Grigory was buried on the left-side of the future Church. Holy God save us! The only ones there were Ania, Lili, Akilina, Feodosia Stepanovna, Zhuk, Colonel Maltsev, the architect, and the Priest. After that, we two went to Znamenia and hospital. I wrote, Kasianov dictated. Did the beds and gave out medicine."
(Thanks to Georgiy for the translation.)

So it would appear, according to Spiridovich and Olga Nikolaevna that the tsar misspoke when he said "the whole family" attended. Odd, isn't it?

Does anyone know, then, why Aleksei did not attend the funeral?
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Offline RichC

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2007, 04:24:14 PM »
Anybody know why Rasputin's own family did not attend?

Offline Belochka

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2007, 07:09:10 PM »
From Olga Nikolaevna's diary:

"Wednesday 21 Dec.
At 9, we 4, Papa and Mama went to the place where Ania's Church is being built.  A Litia was served and Father Grigory was buried on the left-side of the future Church. Holy God save us! The only ones there were Ania, Lili, Akilina, Feodosia Stepanovna, Zhuk, Colonel Maltsev, the architect, and the Priest. After that, we two went to Znamenia and hospital. I wrote, Kasianov dictated. Did the beds and gave out medicine."
(Thanks to Georgiy for the translation.)

So it would appear, according to Spiridovich and Olga Nikolaevna that the tsar misspoke when he said "the whole family" attended. Odd, isn't it?


I have a list that was published by the Russian Orthodox Church of all the persons who atttended the funeral. There were 17 individuals that included the attending priests and security.

Alexei is not listed.

Margarita



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Offline Belochka

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2007, 07:11:56 PM »
Anybody know why Rasputin's own family did not attend?

Alexandra decided against them attending.


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Offline Belochka

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2007, 08:56:07 PM »
Anybody know why Rasputin's own family did not attend?

Alexandra decided against them attending.

Rasputin's wife was still living in Pokrovskoye village.

A few hours prior to the burial, Rasputin's two daughter's Varvara and Matrena attended the Panihida conducted by Bishop Isidor at the Chesmenskii Chapel where Rasputin's corpse still lay.

Thus Alexandra did not want Rasputin's two daughters to attend the brief burial service only.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 09:07:29 PM by Belochka »


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Offline ChristineM

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Re: Aleksei's reaction to Rasputin's death
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2007, 04:42:33 PM »
Additionally, the grave in the Alexander Park was regarded as temporary.   The plan was to have the remains of Grigori Efimovich returned to and interred in his native Pokrovskoe when the war was over and it was safe to travel.

tsaria