Author Topic: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)  (Read 135523 times)

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Offline mr_harrison75

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2007, 07:03:16 PM »
Well, we can perhaps associate the word love with the Imperial Family...

Nena, do you know when your pictures have been taken?

Offline nena

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2007, 07:27:11 PM »
I really don't know, maybe in 1920s?, or in 1918/19? ? ?  ;)
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Offline JStorey

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2007, 05:07:16 PM »


(I've never inserted an image before; so hopefully that worked...  If not, here is the link:  http://www.jeffreystorey.com/IpatievGuardPosts.jpg)

I made a map of the Ipatiev House for the purposes of:

1.  Clarification of Inner and Outer Fence (helps to date photos).

2.  Clarification of the Gates (important for those interested in where the waiting "lorry" was parked).

3.  Location of the guard posts (according to testimony of Iakimoff)

1.  FENCES

There were TWO wooden palisades/housings/crude fences built:  the FIRST was built very close to the house and extended from the front entrance of the lower floor on Vosnessensky Lane, around the house, and concluded in between the first and second window adjacent to the front door of the upper floor.  (The position of the fence in the beautiful model is therefore incorrect; alot of the otherwise brilliant 3d models, etc. seem to either eliminate these fences or misplace them).  

The SECOND fence (built sometime before May 30, it seems) was taller, further out (wide enough for trucks) and extended across the entire span of Vosnessensky Prospect, forming a sort of internal driveway and entrance to the Ipatiev House gate.

So when you look at photos, they become much easier to date simply by whether the first fence only is visible (allowing one to see the front entrance of the house and entry gate) or whether the house is entirely surrounded by the taller fence.  For the "entirely surrounded" photos, at the moment of the photo the IF is surely within, as it was destroyed by the White Army once they arrived.
 
2.  GATES

This is really important.  There were actually three gates:  one at the entry to the internal courtyard of the house itself, and two providing entry at each end of the massive external gate:

"The second fence had two gates - one facing the Vosnesensky Lane, the second right opposite them, in the opposite side of the fence, close to the gate of the house...  ...The [second gate] was built when we were there, as it was found that automobiles had much difficulty leaving through the first entrance on account of a steep hill.  That was the reason why the gates facing the Vosnesensky Lane were constructed.  The motor cars entered through both gates, but they left only through the gate facing the Vosnesensky Lane." (p.168)

So later, when Wilton describes the night of the murders:  "They were not suspicious...  The Tsar and the Tsarevich kept their caps on, as if expecting any moment to go out.  They thought the vehicles that were to convey them away had not arrived, the lorry being there to take the luggage." (p. 309)

Based upon my understanding of the difficulties required for a truck to enter from the hill, and the confines for maneuverability within the gate, I don't believe it would have been possible for the lorry to have backed into the internal courtyard, ostensibly waiting for luggage.  It would have rather waited in the internal lane located between the outside palisade and the outer walls of the house, and therefore none of the IF would have seen it.  Also, it means the bodies would have been carried out of the courtyard and courtyard gate and into the makeshift driveway in front of the house.

More in next post...

Offline JStorey

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2007, 05:08:11 PM »
Previous post, cont...

3.  LOCATION OF THE GUARD POSTS

The red numbers on the map indicate where the guard posts were, according to the testimony of Iakimoff (p. 167):

Post 1:  situated in the first room of the upper floor adjoining the lobby
Post 2:  in the corridor that led to the bathroom and lavoratory

NOTE: once Yurovsky arrived, posts 1 & 2 - most direct to the IF - were replaced by the foreign "Letts" (as was post 12)

Post 3:  in the court yard facing the street by the fence gate.  The gate was always closed and had a little window to enable the sentry to see who came to the house
Post 4:  was situated outside of the outer fence by the wicket of the gates which were constructed at first (internal fence)
Post 5:  situated by the sentry box, near to those gates, in a way the sentry might observe the whole Vosnesensky Prospect.
Post 6:  situated at the other sentry box, which was outside of the fence at the intersection of Vosnesensky Lane and Vosnesensky Prospect, just by the chapel (that little ornamental edifice in front of the house)

NOTE: you can see men stationed at posts 4,5 & 6 in a few of the external photos of the house

Post 7: situated by the old sentry box in the outer yard, between the walls of the house and the first fence

NOTE: the old sentry box is visible in some of the earlier "pre second fence" photos.  It was this post where the murder was allegedly witnessed in the outside the window of the cellar room.  Certainly possibly, as considering this post was within both fences, it must have been rather dull indeed to while away the hours staring at a palisade.

Post 8:  In the garden.  The sentry had to walk around the whole garden.  

NOTE:  The sentry must have known something was afoot if he stopped walking about and went to the window to observe the murder.  The location and responsibilities of Post 7 & 8 call into question the eye-witness accounts of the two men who allegedly witnessed the murders from the external windows of the house.  OR it implicates them with apriori knowledge of what was about to transpire, for, without any knowledge beforehand and having a wide area to guard, why would they be idling about a window at that paricular moment?  My goodness I've become a regular Sherlock Holmes!

Post 9:  On the terrace, where a machine gun was mounted
Post 10:  [Added later by Yurovsky] post in the rear yard
Post 11:  situated in a room of the lower floor (which room I'm not sure; I've guessed at placement)
Post 12:  machine gun post in the attic

I assume this last one by attic must mean within one of the two facades or pediments that distinguished the front of the house.

In any case, I hope this tedious information is useful to someone; it certainly helps when one is imagining various escape scenarios, plots, and the like.  I wonder, if you had a few brave souls willing to save the IF, how might you try to get in?

  

Offline JStorey

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2007, 05:21:05 PM »
One last bit and I'm certainly done posting to this fine website for the day...

Of the two upstairs windows marked "open window", one is based on factual evidence, the other on pure speculation on my part.  Of all these whitewashed windows, and in the heat of the summer, it must have been unbearable to be stuck on the second floor of a house without ventilation.  Therefore the Tsar was allowed to open a window in their (Alexandra, Alexei, Nicholas) bedroom.  What about the Grand Duchasses, I wonder?  Or Anna Demidova?  Were they forced to suffer through the hot nights without any fresh air?

Which brings me to the window I speculate was open.  This was the window to the room of the commandant.  Now, if Yurovsky or Adveiev before him was forced to endure similar conditions, wouldn't one of they open the window for ventilation?  Consider that this room slept several "dirty" men, occasionally served as rendezvous for Nikoulin's tryst, etc.  Add to that, there was a massive deer mounted on the wall!  It must have been unbearable!  I therefore believe in entirely plausable to presume one of these windows was open as well; surely the IF were not allowed entry and therefore security concerns were overriden by the very comforts denied their captors.

All right then, that's enought for the moment...  If I keep this up I'll be a Boyar in no time!

Offline JStorey

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2007, 05:43:35 PM »
To clarify the fence - I'm pasting a few photos from the great site http://www.romanov-memorial.com/:

FIRST FENCE:



You can clearly see where the first fence ends between the two windows of the commandant's room.

Later constructed SECOND FENCE:




It goes on all the way beyond the two story lodge at the far end of the property.  This is what awaited the Romanovs; much more foreboding and you can see that even without whitewashed windows it would have been difficult to see much of anything.

Offline mr_harrison75

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2007, 01:17:35 PM »
Well, even if their guards were of a doubtful quality, the Romanovs had almost no chances of escaping the house. It would've taken some kind of commando to get them out!

Most of the guards would've fled, but one danger would've remain; the Letts, with Yurofsky. As soon as the attack would've begun, the Letts would've tried to kill the Imperial Family...

Offline dmitri

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2007, 08:46:25 PM »
Yes it would have been quite impossible for any of the imperial family to escape alive. The only way they could leave together was either in the custody of Yurovsky, alive or as happened, dead.

Offline JStorey

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2007, 06:04:34 PM »
I agree with you entirely...  Nevertheless interesting to understand the positioning of the guards, lorry, etc., in relation to the night of the murder because it calls into question some of the testimony...

Offline NAOTMAA Fan

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2007, 12:45:57 AM »

However, there is a truck there, but since the Imperial Family were killed on the far left side of the house and in the semi basement, I would think that any truck used to carry them away would be parked much closer to that end of the building.


I hope I'm not sounding pompous, but the you're quite correct Alixz that The IF and retainers were shot on the left side of the building, but the bodies were carried back over to the right side of the house the way the family had minutes before entered by. The truck waited in the courtyard behind the gates. There was no way to exit with a vehicle from the fenced off premises anywhere except those gates, so it was necessary to have to carry all the bodies back over. The reason they couldn't load them from the door closest the murder room was because there were a number of fenced sections inside the palisade and they probably would have been found to be to big a bother with the IF loaded in the Fiat.
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Offline covenant

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2007, 08:05:13 PM »
What colour should my Ipatiev House facade texture be as to be accurate with the house as it was in 1918? It seems it's that pale orange colour?

Offline Belochka

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2007, 08:30:02 PM »
Perhaps a cream colored facade?

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Offline NAOTMAA Fan

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2007, 10:41:27 PM »
Yes I quite agree!!
"...I am in Tatiana's room...Olga and Tatiana are here. I am sitting and digging in my nose with my left hand... Olga wanted to slap me but I ran away from her swinish hand..."
-Anastasia Nicholaievna Romanova, May 8th, 1913

Offline Annie

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2007, 12:00:30 PM »
I really do hate to drag the "AA" mess up again here but I am looking for some info. Of course there is no truth to the story of the tailor who claimed his landlady had AN alive in his bed the night of the executions, but I am looking for proof that no one lived anywhere near where they could have watched the family over the pallisades, and even if there had been some house able to do that I'm sure the guards would have put a stop to it. They even painted up the windows so the IF couldn't see out, so you don't think they'd be so stupid as to allow 'nosey neighbors' to stare over at them, much less drag one of the girls over there and put her in the bed. If that had happened the house would surely have been searched and the occupants shot. So while I don't believe the story at all I am looking for proof that there was no such house in the vicinity. There doesn't appear to be from the photos posted here, besides the other intangibles such as the guards not allowing gawking neighbors even if there was. Thanks for any help.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Ipatiev house photos (interior & exterior)
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2007, 09:49:16 AM »
I really do hate to drag the "AA" mess up again here but I am looking for some info. Of course there is no truth to the story of the tailor who claimed his landlady had AN alive in his bed the night of the executions, but I am looking for proof that no one lived anywhere near where they could have watched the family over the pallisades, and even if there had been some house able to do that I'm sure the guards would have put a stop to it. They even painted up the windows so the IF couldn't see out, so you don't think they'd be so stupid as to allow 'nosey neighbors' to stare over at them, much less drag one of the girls over there and put her in the bed. If that had happened the house would surely have been searched and the occupants shot. So while I don't believe the story at all I am looking for proof that there was no such house in the vicinity. There doesn't appear to be from the photos posted here, besides the other intangibles such as the guards not allowing gawking neighbors even if there was. Thanks for any help.

So Bookworm said he saw them outside. Jaa said he saw them from the upstairs window. It doesn't seem to add up or make sense. Was there an upstairs porch? Even so there's no need to discuss this if it didn't really happen.


No.
and
No.

You have gotten things all twisted.

Heinrich K. said he went inside the fences.
Heinrich K. did not say he saw anything.
Heinrich K. said he heard gun shots and a scream.
The frighten Heinrich K.  left before seeing or hearing anything else.

AGRBear



Follow this quote and it will take you to the thread about Heinrich K. the tailor,  who mended
the uniforms of the guards who were part of the Ipatiev House in the summer of
1918.   He did not claim to have seen anything over a fense. 
----

If there is a photo of the surrounding buildings such as Baoudins Tailor shop,  I do think they'd be interesting
to view.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 10:00:09 AM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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