Re: Anna Anderson and the Dauphin pretenders

[Annie]

This is very interesting, thanks! I always wanted to know more about this story. I had heard there were pretenders for France too. For anyone who doesn't know French take it to Babelfish.

You know, I really do hope that kid survived, poor little guy. How could anyone torture a child just because his parents were royal? I have wondered if the Tsar's children had been this young would they have recieved any more mercy? Revolutionaries are evil to kill children.

[Robert_Hall]

Anyone who kills or otherwise hurts a child is evil, not just revolutionaries.
Robert

[Annie]

Very true, but to somehow feel that it's justified because of some revolutionary cause makes that even more evil.

[olga]

Robert never said it was justified because they were revolutionaries.

[rskkiya]

Very true, but to somehow feel that it's justified because of some revolutionary cause makes that even more evil.

Annie
This really seems an unkind and unjustified comment-- please reread Mr Hall's comment.

Rskkiya

[Annie]

Oh for God's sake, WHATEVER!

Killing little kids is wrong

Killing kids just because their parents are on the opposite side of you in the revolution is wrong

However I consider the latter to be even sicker and more evil. Most people who do #1 have mental problems. Most people who do #2 are just evil.

I realize some of you here are 'reds' and take offense to that, but that doesn't change my opinion.

So execute me

[Alexa]

Robert never said it was justified because they were revolutionaries.

I dont' think that's what Annie meant (or at least it's not the way I interpreted her response).  The way I took is that it's evil for anyone to hurt or kill and child, but to justify your actions in the name of a revolution takes it above and beyond evil, to a level of evil that's just unspeakable and reprehensable.

Alexa

[Annie]

I dont' think that's what Annie meant (or at least it's not the way I interpreted her response).  The way I took is that it's evil for anyone to hurt or kill and child, but to justify your actions in the name of a revolution takes it above and beyond evil, to a level of evil that's just unspeakable and reprehensable.

Alexa

Yes, thank you, sometimes when I get irritated I don't think straight. Exactly.

[Elisabeth]

To return to the topic of your thread, Jeremy, you bring up an incredibly interesting parallel, worthy of a book in and of itself.

Have you also looked at English history? There are many historical parallels between the murder of the Russian imperial family and that of the Princes in the Tower - to wit, murdered royal children (in this case, Edward V and his brother, Richard, Duke of York), disappearing corpses (which were not found for some two hundred years), persistent rumors of the children's survival, and the subsequent rise of various pretenders in their name (i.e., Perkin Warbeck and Lambert Simnel).

If you ask me, it was a stroke of genius on the part of the Bolsheviks to keep the murder of the imperial children a mystery for so many years. It deprived the Whites of certain martyrs and lent credence to the stories of various royal claimants, further dividing the anti-Bolshevik cause. It almost makes you think somebody in charge was familiar with Shakespeare's play, "Richard III" - ? But that's doubtful.

[Annie]

In addition to royal pretenders, there have also been people claiming to be Billy the Kid, John Wilkes Booth, Butch Cassidy and Jesse James. Some of these, I think all of them, have led to bodies being exhumed and DNA tests being done, though I haven't heard about any results. People also frequently claim that they have seen Jim Morrison or Elvis and they aren't really dead either. People just love a mystery.

[Elisabeth]

This is true, Annie, but in some cases it is simply very politically expedient to lie about what you have done with the heir to the throne - or with the actual rightful king, in the case of Edward V. To have someone "disappear" is far more convenient than to admit openly to having them killed. Not only do you avoid accusations of murder, you also throw the political opposition into total confusion, since they don't know for certain if their leader is dead or still being held in captivity somewhere.

[Annie]

Oh of course, I know, I just added those others just to show how popular pretenders are and how people seem to love the stories.

There must have been plenty of 'dauphins' in the US in the mid-1800's, Mark Twain even added such a character to "Huck Finn"

[Robert_Hall]

Indeed there was ! One supposedly was spirited away by loyalists to Penn. where a house had been built especially for the Queen [MA] The family eventually moved to New Orleans and as of 1948 was in Woodland Hills, CA [of all places].
Another book has the Queen [MA again]  being rescued  from the scaffold and moved safely to Wisconsin !  I guess the "lost" French royals were selling well- books that is- in the post war years !
Cheers,
Robert

[Annie]

Indeed there was ! One supposedly was spirited away by loyalists to Penn. where a house had been built especially for the Queen [MA] The family eventually moved to New Orleans and as of 1948 was in Woodland Hills, CA [of all places].
Another book has the Queen [MA again]  being rescued  from the scaffold and moved safely to Wisconsin !  I guess the "lost" French royals were selling well- books that is- in the post war years !
Cheers,
Robert

Interesting, thanks! Wasn't there also a cohort of Napoleon, Michael somebody, who supposedly escaped the firing squad and came to the US and lived for years as a schoolteacher telling his stories of France? I know I read that once.

[RichC]

Let's not forget about Pugachev pretending to be Peter III and the False Dmitry.