Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2

[Kalafrana]

'If one considers Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna's remains, then why not extend it to her sister as well and then to all the other Russian born Grand Dukes and Duchesses who died en exile?

'Apart from the prohibitive costs involved, its just all too much for too many for no real good reason.'


I agree. Speaking personally, I find exhumations and reburials distasteful unless there are very strong reasons. There were the strongest of reasons to give Nicholas, Alexandra, their children and the servants who died with them a reburial, as they had not been properly buried in the first place, and as I understand it, the Dowager Empress did express a wish before she died that she would like to be buried with her husband if it became possible. If the bodies of Mikhail, Pavel and the other three Grand Dukes shot in 1919 are ever found and identified, there would be good reason to give them a reburial.

However, there seems no reason to uproot Olga Alexandrovna and the others who were buried abroad, so let them stay where they are and put up memorial plaques in SS Peter and Paul.

Ann

[Eric_Lowe]

I agree. It would be nice for others who do not live in Russia to visit these graves (Olga in Canada and Xenia in France).

[Janet Ashton]

...After the birth of the heir, the family retreated from society and lived a make belief world (according to Nicholas II's cousin Marie of Romania's memoirs). Olga further said only her mother and Ella had the monarchy's best interest at heart and yet they could do nothing.

Eric,

Pity you failed to quote Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna's statement accurately.  What she actually said was:

"My mother and Aunt Ella alone had Nicky's interests at heart ..."

This provides a very different message to the one you attempted to convey here.

Similarly, you should have been aware that she qualified her statement by saying that -

"neither my mother nor my aunt knew all the details as they were. They too based their judgments on rumors." [Ref: Vorres, p 138]



Furthermore, using Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna's words: "others began coming to Tsarskoe Selo to give uncalled-for advice , to utter violently worded warning, even to make scenes."  [Ref: Vorres, pp 138-139]

Indeed - the point OLga was making was that all Romanovs were very free with their advice to Nicholas, but that only her mother and Ella did so with disinterested motives. Her words were certainly not intended as a criticism of Alexandra or as a means of blaming her for everything. Olga was the one person who maintained (correctly in my view) that Nicholas and Alexandra were well-acquainted with Rasputin's faults, but chose to take him anyway. Additionally, Olga was also well-acquainted with the poor relationships that existed between Romanovs long before Alexandra came on the scene - her own book (not to mention her correspondence) contains plenty of remarks about Miechen and her sons, and she can hardly have been unaware of the jealousy and back-biting that went on between Maria Feodorovna and Miechen, since it was undoubtedly the source of her own feelings about that branch of the family.

[Janet Ashton]

You are right, Olga never took to Rasputin although she said she was amazed by his powers of healing. Also she could see that because of her blind trust of the man, the good name of the imperial family went down with it. It also broke the unity of the Imperial Family, Miechen (Grand Duchess Vladimir) and other Romanovs (grand Duke Alexander and Grand Duke Paul included) thought the Empress was mad and some even favor a palace revolution and exile her to a nunnary, while set up a regent for Alexis. To her credit, Olga never told anyone about those anxious last days on the monarchy.

Alexander Mikhailovich wrote that Rasputin's power was negligible and that people misunderstood the situation. He and his associates spent the first ten years of Nicholas's reign urging him to ignore and sidestep the ministers who were "driving a wedge" between him and his people; yet he did not like it when Nicholas took him at his word yet went to other shady sources for council instead of to him. He was no friend to democracy, and he had done plenty to "drag down" the good name of the Romanovs, as did the sainted Ella's husband, whose advice she so often urged Nicholas to take, in long, ranting and ill-punctuated letters. And indeed we know how bad Serge's reputation was because Sandro himself tells us so. A truly united family....:-)

[Eric_Lowe]

Well...Most historians believe that Rasputin played a vital role in propaganda war against the monarchy. Nicholas II tried to exile him but he was weak against his wife's pleas as Alexei was concerned. Even Ella was aware of the public hatred of Rasputin and tried to open her sister's eyes but was driven away. "She drove me away like a dog ! " she cried according to her niece Marie Paulovna, the younger's book. Olga was of course glad that Alicky could give her brother happiness, but she also saw her unpopularity dragged down the dynasty. The more I read the more I am convinced that had Nicholas III married anybody else, the Russian Revolution could have been at least delayed or even so his family could have escaped. Indeed even George V was convinced that Alicky played a role in the fall of the monarchy, and later recinded the offer of asylum. one of the things they talked about was the unpopularity og the Empress.

[Janet Ashton]

Well...Most historians believe that Rasputin played a vital role in propaganda war against the monarchy.

Of course he did. As did the excessively opulent life-style of the Grand Dukes; their flouting of house laws when it came to marriage; their bickering; their political roles; their mistresses; the German birth of the Empress and many of the grand duchesses (including Ella, who was stoned for it and accused of harboring her brother); Nicholas's confrontations with the parliament he himself invoked; his breaking his own laws, and his brutal and panicky response to uprisings against him. Not to mention of course his well-known tendency to seek advice from unofficial sources; his vacillation and complete lack of transparency in dealing with people. Oh and - the wars.

Anyway, I am sure I have said this before quite a few times.......it bores people no doubt (It certainly bores me :-) )

[Eric_Lowe]

Yes. I think for personal reasons, Olga was glad to be rid of the chains of being a royal. She was more of a free spirit.

[grandduchessella]

Well...Most historians believe that Rasputin played a vital role in propaganda war against the monarchy. Nicholas II tried to exile him but he was weak against his wife's pleas as Alexei was concerned. Even Ella was aware of the public hatred of Rasputin and tried to open her sister's eyes but was driven away. "She drove me away like a dog ! " she cried according to her niece Marie Paulovna, the younger's book. Olga was of course glad that Alicky could give her brother happiness, but she also saw her unpopularity dragged down the dynasty. The more I read the more I am convinced that had Nicholas III married anybody else, the Russian Revolution could have been at least delayed or even so his family could have escaped. Indeed even George V was convinced that Alicky played a role in the fall of the monarchy, and later recinded the offer of asylum. one of the things they talked about was the unpopularity og the Empress.

And her unpopularity was chalked up (in the George V discussion) to her being a German during a war with that country. He said that she was considered a 'criminal' by many, not that she was cold. No doubt her personality played a part in her perception but as Janet pointed out, that same accusations of German sympathy was levelled at the very popular Ella. The Illustrated London News, in their coverage of the abdication, talked unfavorably of the 'German' members of the Romanov family though they gave Victoria Melita a pass on that.

Back to Olga, though. Did she spend any significant time in England at all after the war? She lived just over in Denmark for years. I haven't seen photos of her visiting the country ala the Dowager Empress and Xenia.

[Eric_Lowe]

Indeed. Ducky was lucky that she was born a British Princess instead of a German one. At the time of her birth, her father was still HRH. The Duke of Edinburgh and thus a Princess of Great Britian. Alicky and those born of foreign fathers were not so lucky (even Mary Loo & Thora). Also it is also the truth that due to constant illness and concern forAlexei, Alicky chose to ignore her duty as empress.

Olga did not spent much time in England as oppose to her sister Xenia, who lived out the rest of her life in the bosom of the Windsors.

[Kalafrana]

Had Victoria Melita and her sisters been born after their father became Duke of Coburg, they would still have been Princess of Great Britain and Ireland - their father did not lose one status, but gained a second. Equally, Charles Edward, Duke of Coburg, reined a Prince of Great Britain and Ireland until he was deprived of this by virtue of the Titles Deprivation Act 1917.

John van der Kiste's book on Xenia mentioned Olga and Xenia meeting several times between the wars, but I think in Denmark - I will look it up.

From what I remember of Marie Louise's book, she and her sister did nopt encounter serious problems in World War 1, but both of them were very active in wartime charities, which may have made a difference. Marie Louise turned her girls' club in the East End into a military hospital. Strangely enough, in 1916 my grandmother, a pianist, was asked to join an organisation giving concert for troops in France. The original letter is at my parents' house, and the organisation's patron is 'HH Princess Helena Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein'. Alas, my grandmother's parents made her stay at home. She was 25 at the time.

Ann

[Eric_Lowe]

Indeed. When George V tried to conferr the title of "Duke of Edinburgh" on Georgie around the time of his marriage to Marina of Greece, but Missy wrote back protesting that she and her sisters (especially Ducky who did attent the wedding, being an Aunt of the bride) still think of themselves as "Edinburgh girls "!

Yes I think in Denmark. Olga did not plant roots in England.

Indeed. Mary Loo and Thora became "Princesses of Nowhere"...

[katmaxoz]

For those of you who are interested in Olga's art this set of pictures of some of here paintings might be worth looking at.

http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/selistena2007/album/85646?p=0


enjoy

[Eric_Lowe]

Are they selling them ?

[katmaxoz]

Are they selling them ?

No - It's just an online gallery of images someone has collected, still it's a nice selection of her work.

[Eric_Lowe]

Thanks for the correction since I cannot read the language.