Author Topic: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2  (Read 384129 times)

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Offline Arkhimago

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #570 on: January 15, 2014, 09:13:59 PM »
Eric недавно разболтал:

                     "It is also true that their affection never rose to the level of her mother Dagmar and her sisters "

Wow Eric! I am duly impressed!
The only possible way you could possess such intimate knowledge is to have personally known either the grand duchesses or their mother?
Perhaps you actually ARE a genuine великий князь?  (Apparently there are sundry ones about the forum?)

That would explain the rather appalling spelling & pronoun usage in your fascinating declarations?
 And I DO know that you are doubtlessly more accustomed to have your private secretary take dictation for you.
But if he scribed this for you, then really must teach him about that... Spell-Czech thing-a-ma-bob??
(I believe that it does English as well?) Not sure. Have never used it myself.
Tell him that as a matter of character, it follows that when one cannot be bothered to check those things, that it thusly calls into question the veracity of any other item that they purport to be fact, and thusly casts aspersions on ones "noblesse" (or apparent lack thereof) as a whole!

This heinous faux-pas may be grounds for said mendicants immediate dismissal!! And if you DO chose that route of action, then DO replace him with a Swiss one this time! Not only are they punctual, but they are quite handy at pressing your dress shirts should your valet be indisposed.
Surely their are Gilliard descendants about whom would fit the bill and who would also easily acclimatize to your glamorous peripatetic peregrinations of palace hopping to visit your regal kin for a spot of intimate tete a tete!      

And should the culprit who wrote this piece under your princely moniker , not be a native speaker of the Queens English, I do NOT apologize.
Neither am I.
 

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #571 on: January 15, 2014, 11:23:57 PM »
Please see previous posting.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #572 on: January 16, 2014, 05:05:38 AM »

I would like to know if Xenia and Olga attended George VI's coronation?
And, did Xenia attend Elizabeth II's coronation?

Larry

Olga didn't attend the coronation in 1937 year,  Xenia was there though not inside the Westminster Abbey but only in the Buckingam Palace (with her son Vasiliy and his wife Natalia) at the reception just after the coronation.

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #573 on: January 16, 2014, 09:04:26 AM »
Hi Svetabel,

Thank you for your reply - good information!

Cheers,
Larry

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #574 on: January 16, 2014, 02:37:12 PM »
Xenia also attended George V's Jubilee and was on the balcony for that appearance and some others.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #575 on: January 16, 2014, 11:37:01 PM »
It would be much easier for Xenia to attend King George V's Jubilee since she was living in England at the time. Olga was a bit far in Denmark or Canada.

historyfan

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #576 on: January 17, 2014, 11:01:47 AM »
Olga and her family moved to Canada in 1948. At the time of the Jubilee, she would have been in Denmark. I wonder, was she invited?

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #577 on: January 17, 2014, 12:46:21 PM »
Olga and her family moved to Canada in 1948. At the time of the Jubilee, she would have been in Denmark. I wonder, was she invited?

Yes, she was in Denmark then, and actually she rarely left the country as the travelling was quite expensive for her. From time to time she visited Berlin, in the beginning of 1930s she travelled to Slovakia with her husband and sons (Kulikovskiy needed a rest after a serious surgery).
 As for the 1935 Jubilee I didn't find any mention  of her inviting , but Xenia of course was invited and even lived for 2 days in Buckingham Palace.

If speaking about 2 sisters meetings through years...the meetings were very rare. Xenia was often ill, and had no chance to leave England due to her finances - but in 1936 she spent 2 months with Olga and her family in Ballerup, Olga's "estate" in Denmark. The rest time sisters changed letters and were aware of each others's matters.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #578 on: January 17, 2014, 04:56:39 PM »
It would be much easier for Xenia to attend King George V's Jubilee since she was living in England at the time. Olga was a bit far in Denmark or Canada.

Yes, Obviously--it was a response to a previous question. Olga, however, didn't participate in Christian X's Jubilee in 1937 and distance wasn't a question there. She did attend other royal events like family weddings though that took place in Denmark up until the time she left the country for Canada.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 05:01:31 PM by grandduchessella »
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historyfan

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #579 on: January 17, 2014, 08:47:26 PM »
I'd like to gather more reading material about Grand Duchess Olga. I have 25 Chapters of my Life and The Last Grand Duchess, but I am seeing tidbits of information that weren't in either of those sources (such as what Svetabel mentioned about the family traveling to Slovakia so Col Kulikovsky could recover from surgery). Can anyone help me compile my list? Thanks!

Offline Arkhimago

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #580 on: January 18, 2014, 12:40:55 AM »
History Fan wrote:
"I'd like to gather more reading material about Grand Duchess Olga. I have 25 Chapters of my Life and The Last Grand Duchess, but I am seeing tidbits of information that weren't in either of those sources"

You already own the only two definitive works on Olga Alexandrovna.
Although some readers did not care for 25 Chapters, I found it to be a really fascinating companion book to the Last Grand Duchess. As the latter piece was a biography of HIH's recollections of her life reviewed and recalled by her in retrospect at the end of her life, 25 Chapters is a very different posthumous compendium of many of those same events, but based upon the letters describing them, as well as her actual feelings and experience of them, in real time AT the time that they occurred.

A complaint seen often in reviews of such books, is in regard to the information that has been omitted about events or personalities. In both of these works this is with intent and not by accidental error. It is important to note that Ian Vorres came about this writing project quite by chance. Although his documentation and writing skills are impeccable, he was (and is ) essentially an art historian, and was neither a scholar of Russian political nor imperial history nor could he speak the language. Hence in his finished book, not only did he honour the wishes of his friend and subject in not delving into where or what she may not wish to recall or cover, he was not familiar enough himself with that history to know what issues or personae may have needed further review. Thusly it really is for the most part her tale, as she wanted it told, written as an autobiography through a ghost writer.

25 Chapters, although positioned as a memoir reconstructs her story upon an assortment of her correspondence collected from various sources, and compiled by her great grandson. Olga Alexandrovna was as discreet as she was private, hence any of those dealing with more sensitive themes or controversial characters were simply destroyed long ago if not immediately after reading (recall Empress Alexandra burning piles of correspondence at the Alexander Palace in those final days) by either the recipient or the sender, or just were ...not there, which then comes out as being a historical "no comment" as was and is her... imperial prerogative.

With that last caveat in mind, should you have one of the original publications of the Last Grand Duchess from the 1960s, you might want to also seek out a copy of the more recent re-release (which I covered in a posting on here a few years ago) This version has a substantial epilogue both touching upon some issues that came about as a result of the release of the original, and also covers items such as the imperial jewels saga that continued after the passing of HIH. Of real interest, and should you happen to have both copies side by side, is to compare the acknowledgements in both versions prefaces against each other. Perhaps you may read between the lines as to the reasons behind those variations.

I should add that the Patricia Phenix error laden tome about the Grand Duchess does not even merit mention here.
 Mr. Vorres summarized it precisely & succinctly in HIS review of it as: "Completely superfluous" ;-)

As for your reason in acquiring more reading material being to find any documentation of the "tidbits" you have been reading here, I can assure you that you will not find any. Since this is the first time many of them might appear in print, you may consider this forum an original source.

(I apologize in advance for my perhaps inaccurate usage above, of the terms Autobiography and Biography. I am neither a publisher nor author, hence I hope neither of the latter who might read, shall this upbraid me upon the finer points or specific definitions of said memoirs)

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #581 on: January 18, 2014, 07:37:43 AM »



As for your reason in acquiring more reading material being to find any documentation of the "tidbits" you have been reading here, I can assure you that you will not find any. Since this is the first time many of them might appear in print, you may consider this forum an original source.



If we speak about the sources in English, well, documentation is poor I agree. But what about such sources as correspondence, in Russian? The source of my 'tidbits' on Olga and Xenia's life in 1919-1940 years are their letters to Princess Alexandra Obolenskaya (nee Countess Apraksina), long-time friend of Empress Maria Fedorovna and Xenia itself. There is a recent publication, in Russian, of this correspondence:

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24737492/

and a pdf version

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24705089/

the book is unigue, there are many letters of Xenia ( who was closer to Princess even more then the Empress and Olga) and not so much of Olga and MF.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 02:15:30 PM by Svetabel »

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #582 on: January 18, 2014, 11:52:12 AM »
I wonder if the letters of Olga to her family & friends were saved and collected. They should gave a better picture than books about her.

Offline Arkhimago

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #583 on: January 18, 2014, 12:45:07 PM »
Svetabel wrote:

"If we speak about the sources in English, well, documentation is poor I agree. But what about such sources as correspondence, in Russian?"


Svetabel:

I was not inferring that the extant documentation is poor. Nor was I suggesting that my "tidbits" came from those or any other letters or journals.
Grand Duchess Olga wrote equally well in both English and Russian, often combining both along with an occasional French or German term when the topic merited. (Can YOU think of a single Russian or English word that can better express "schadenfreude" ?? ;-)

My point was merely that the assortment of written material utilized in 25 Chapters was neither by measure nor intent an archive, and even within that collection, there would of course be sequences where there just would be NO remaining documents, either by design, by intent, or from merely being lost through the last century. Secondly, it would not be possible for the writer to know, despite all good intent, where or with whom might reside any additional correspondence. Hence with that understanding they did a terrific job telling and illustrating her story from what they did have, and it should thusly not be regarded as a historic & concise review of her epoch, and therefore not be subject to critique as it's been for its omissions.

After all, it IS called "25 Chapters of my Life".
 And as HIH had, at the very least 65 chapters (with dozens of appendices), the title makes no claim of being either inclusive or encyclical.  :)

And thank you for that link to Princess Obolenskaya's letters (the archive of which I believe may reside in NYC?) I look forward to reading them.


Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
« Reply #584 on: January 18, 2014, 02:22:48 PM »
Can YOU think of a single Russian or English word that can better express "schadenfreude" ?? ;-)




Zloradstvo? :)



And thank you for that link to Princess Obolenskaya's letters (the archive of which I believe may reside in NYC?) I look forward to reading them.



Yes, the originals are in the Columbia University, Bakhmeteff fund. About 400 letters.