Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2

[historyfan]

For her, it seems, the space she was in didn't matter nearly as much as the people she shared it with.

[Eric_Lowe]

I guess the story that got lost is that Olga grew up alone. Her parents and older siblings did not have much time for her when she was young.

[Kalafrana]

Actually no. She was close to her father and to Mikhail, though she does seem to have been left on the margins after her father's death.

Ann

[edubs31]

Actually no. She was close to her father and to Mikhail, though she does seem to have been left on the margins after her father's death.

Ann

Yes. I too have read that she had a very loving and special relationship with her father the Tsar.

[Eric_Lowe]

Yes. But The Tsar was very busy and did not have much time for her, even though the time they spent together were "quality time". The bond with "Darling Floppy" (Michael) was equally fragile. In the Crawford book, Olga abandoned her brother and his mistress when she denied knowledge of the romance even though the photo simply showed that they actually double dated and spend some time together (both couples).

[historyfan]

I'm having deja vu. I'm sure the topic of Michael and Natalia, and Olga's actions regarding, has already been discussed. Who knows whether or not the relationship may have been repaired if the revolution hadn't intervened and Michael hadn't been murdered (on Olga's birthday!)

[Eric_Lowe]

Just saying that even Olga's relationship with her brother Michael was fragile. No wonder she sought comfort in solitude.

[Arkhimago]

Just saying that even Olga's relationship with her brother Michael was fragile. No wonder she sought comfort in solitude.

?? That statement does not even make any sense?? How do you possibly infer that, after stating others did not have time for her, and that she purportedly had these fragile relationships with her family......that she sought comfort... in being alone??

Wouldn't it be exactly the opposite?

[Kalafrana]

Eric

You need to bear in mind that fathers, then and now, are usually busy (mine was away a fair amount for work, and doing part-time courses as well). Olga may have seen more of her father than was usual then.

As to Mikhail, Olga was clearly fond of him, but shocked at his behaviour with his mistress.

Ann

[Eric_Lowe]

Well Ann,

Olga herself was hardly a paragon of virtue with a husband and a lover on the side at the same time, she lacked the moral high ground of her mother (Dagmar) and sister-in-law (Alicky) to pass judgement on to Countess Brassov. It was the lack of loyalty that made the relationship fragile. Also Olga was a misfit that did not fit in with the girly-girly crowd of Missy & Ksenia, but surprisingly did not jell with another tomboy (Greek Minny) in the greater family. The true happiness she felt was when she was painting and dressed in her smock (painter's gown) as she admitted with Ian Vorres. Getting married and having children for her was the icing on the cake.

Eric

[Kalafrana]

I am inclined to accept that Olga did not sleep with Colonel Kulikovsky until they were married. If that is the case, there is no hypocrisy about her disapproval of Mikhail's mistress.

Naturally, it is impossible to know for certain, but the evidence for me is that they married on 16 November 1916, and Tikhon was born on 12 August 1917. On this basis we have a highly fertile couple in the days before contraception was all that reliable, so if they had been sleeping together before that then pregnancy was highly likely.

In any case, from the time the two met, Olga tried to persuade her brother and Peter of Oldenburg to allow her a divorce so that she and Colonel Kulikovsky could marry. Further, he was an eminently respectable single man, whereas Natalie Wulfert had a distinct past.

Ann

[Eric_Lowe]

Whether or not Olga slept with Kulikovsky is not a big issue (And unfortunately you cannot know for sure). The big issue is that Olga was a married woman and having that kind of a situation is far from moral. People live in glass houses do not throw stones. There is already the example of the Ducky/Kyril situation. So I don't think Olga should be shocked. The fact that she knew of the situation (the photo said it all) and her later attempt to avoid all responsibility of the situation was not one of the best moments of Olga's life. I agree with the Crawfords in their assessment. The major sin in both cases was that both Kulilovsky and Countess Brassov were commoners. In fact The Dowager Empress and Grand Duchess Ksenia never let Olga forget about it.

[CountessKate]

I can't see the evidence that Olga's disapproval of Natalia Brasova was based entirely on her being Michael's mistress.  It looks more like the sort of disapproval the Windsors had for Mrs Simpson - one could see it from Olga's perspective that Natalia was a divorced woman, and therefore an inappropriate person for Michael to be associated with in such a public fashion, who caused him to deceive his emperor and furthermore to deprive his emperor of his support when this was most needed.  And with Mrs Simpson, most of the discredit for Michael's actions fell on the woman.  This may not be the sort of feeling which resonates to a modern audience, but it was very common right up to WWII as Edward VIII's situation shows.  It doesn't mean that Olga was a hypocrite, just that she was a woman of her time, who felt her brother had let down his empire and his family for a woman with a dubious past whom she believed had married him for his position. 

[Eric_Lowe]

The sad thing is that both situations is pretty much the same. Olga was a married woman with a lover on the side. How could she accused Countess Brossova of immorality when she is doing the same ? I don't think she condone it but nor did she spoken against it. The photo said it all (they were double dating together). There is no way she could get out of that situation without lying. In using the situation with Mrs. Simpson. There is no disapproval against Wallis before Edward VIII drop the bombshell he wanted to marry her. Wallis was only a line of wedded ladies that the former POW engage as a mistress from Freda Dudley-Ward (as seen in Downton Abbey) to Thelma Furness. Olga seem to be okay with Micheal's mistress until he stressed he wanted to marry the woman  (do remember that unlike Wallis She was pregnant). While Olga herself also wanted to marry the handsome Kulikovsky, she tried to shield herself personallly of the responsibility and that is self preservation. Where is the brother sister love bond ? Which is why I found there is much more love, acceptance with the Edinburgh family (both Missy & Ducky got into scrapes) , but Marie Coburg never closed her door on her daughters and did damage control for them (as seen in "Dear Missy").

[Kalafrana]

I'm not sure that in the case of either the Duke of Windsor and Mrs Simpson or Mikhail and Natalie Wulfert most of the family disapproval (as opposed to the public disapproval) fell on the woman. There was plenty of family disapproval of the men's behaviour, plus exasperation that they had each allowed themselves to be ensnared by an adventuress (to use that splendidly old-fashioned term!). I think there is a difference between a single person without a past and someone on their second divorce. Moreover, Mikhail was Wulfert's Commanding Officer, and therefore abusing his authority.

It is a bit sweeping to suggest that because Olga was conducting a romance with Kulikovsky she should have created a united front with Natalie Wulfert. Olga's romance had no bearing on the succession, and, whether she slept with Kulikovsky before marriage or not, she took care not to get pregnant.

And Eric, we know well that you can never entertain the slightest criticism of Marie of Rumania and Victoria Melita!

Ann