Author Topic: The memorial cross at the AP  (Read 17667 times)

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Offline BobAtchison

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Re: The memorial cross at the AP
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2007, 04:21:41 PM »
As I always say people say things on the web that they would never say to a person face-to-face.  I always dread going back and reading some of the things I posted in alt.talk.royalty 8 years ago - was that me?  I really am a nice guy but you wouldn't know it to read my comments back then...

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The memorial cross at the AP
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2007, 04:52:38 PM »
I am with Helen,  Arleen's comment was as mean-spirited as she was calling  others.  This is a discussion on a memorial to the IF that some of us find distateful and inappropriate, not on anyone's moral values.
 Back to the AP itself, though.  I do not care for the taste Alexanfra displayed, it is dated and cluttered, but I suppose that is ok if one has a house full of staff to clean the stuff. HOWEVER, I do like the Maple Room, [sans all the expensive tschokes]. It was a nice, probably premium example of art nouveau design.  Sadly, for various reasons, I agree with Tsaria that it is unrealistic to expect it to be re-created. In my opinion, I would like to see the AP highlighting the art and talent of Russian craftmanship, not a mausoleum to the last imperial family.
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Offline Belochka

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Re: The memorial cross at the AP
« Reply #47 on: October 16, 2007, 08:25:07 PM »
I can assure you there will never be a plaque erected inside the Alexander Palace.

Nothing can ever be so certain. The idea of placing a discete plaque inside the public entrance ackowledging that this palace was the home of the last Imperial Family should be considered IMHO.

... Margarita - I have never left flowers at the monument (although I have contributed and organised wreaths to be laid there on behalf of the Alexander Palace Association on the anniversary of the murders).   I am surprised you like it.   I would have thought you were only too familiar with Soviet-style architecture. 

Indeed I am very familiar with soviet architecture and monuments. Not all are so grotesque that they must be discounted because they were erected during the soviet era or created by individuals who were required to conform.

...  Nobody has considered Viv Rosendhal's feelings.
   
tsaria

Tsaria, with respect your comment is most unkind. Viv generously posted an image on this discussion forum. It was great that she chose to do so. However I am now of the impression that we must remain silent in future about the qualities of any "temporary memorial" placed on site by any private individuals.

My comments had absolutely nothing to do with the motivation of the person(s) who placed it there in the first place. That, for me was a separate issue entirely which I omitted to express at the time.

May I assure you that any comments that were conveyed at least from myself regarding that installation had absolutely nothing to do with affecting Viv's feelings.

Thank you,

Margarita


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Offline ChristineM

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Re: The memorial cross at the AP
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2007, 03:59:45 AM »
Even after the intervention of Forum Admin and Bob Atchison himself, you want to keep stoking the flames, Margarita?   

Perhaps your confessed omission gave rise to wrong interpretation.   

Where has anyone even hinted that posters should remain silent over memorials - of quality or otherwise:  temporary or otherwise?

On the basis of current thinking - and nobody knows what the future holds, not even for an hour, far less a day - there will be no plaque erected to commemorate the persons who occupied the left wing of the Alexander Palace.   A tour round the rooms, which were opened in the late 90s as a result of various interventions including Bob's and my own, but in particular, Gleb Panfilov, makes perfectly obvious the identity of the last imperial inhabitants of the Alexander Palace.

There has been a marked lack of respect for others shown on this thread - something which was totally unnecessary and unworthy of the Forum - most especially since it is to the Alexander Palace and the last Imperial Family that this entire website commemorates.

tsaria

Offline Greenowl

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Re: The memorial cross at the AP
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2007, 07:13:57 AM »
"There has been a marked lack of respect for others shown on this thread - something which was totally unnecessary and unworthy of the Forum - most especially since it is to the Alexander Palace and the last Imperial Family that this entire website commemorates".

I don't understand the need for such behaviour (i.e. the marked lack of respect for others mentioned in the quote above). Surely civilized individuals should be capable of making a point and expressing their opinions WITHOUT the need to resort to rude and hurtful language? As far as I can see, a great many people seem to derive some sort of pleasure from making nasty and snide remarks. I believe that everyone should be entitled to express an opinion without fear of ridicule and personal attack. In many cases the problem is not what is said BUT how it is said. As I remarked in my earlier post, I really don't know what all the fuss is about. It seems crazy to me to get so worked up about an innocent memorial cross, whether or not one likes it.

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: The memorial cross at the AP
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2007, 12:02:17 PM »
The Maple Room was the greatest Style Moderne domestic interior in Russia.  It's designer was a Roman Meltzer,  a great interior designer in Russia at the time.  I am unhappy to say that it seems he is not much appreciated today - except at the Hermitage.  He incorporated many innovations in lighting in the room with lighting above the cornice and backlit art class around the mirror in the balcony.  The furniture was mostly his designs that were made in his family's furniture factories, but there were also a few Darmstadt pieces by Peter Behrens.

Roman Meltzer came to the USA after the revolution and designed movie theaters.

Kuchumov told me that the Maple Room was - in many ways - one of the top three rooms in the palace.  He said there was no way one could appreciate the colors, the fabrics, the textures from BW photographs.  I have seen some pieces of the fabrics from the curtains and the upholstery from Darmstadt - they are wonderful.

This room is really a tribute to Darmstadt and Grand Duke Ernst-Ludwig's Artist's Colony.  He was very much involved in every step of the design of both the Maple Room and New Study.  His bust and a famous pastel of him by Kaulbach were displayed in the room.

Finally let's not forget that this was where of the Faberge Eggs were displayed and the site of many historical events of the time.  In Britain there were calls for the destruction of Victorian interiors when they were out of fashion....

Offline Arleen

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Re: The memorial cross at the AP
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2007, 02:59:51 PM »
I apologize to everyone who thinks I am a mean old grouch!  I really don't mean to hurt peoples feelings.  I guess I just get so frustrated at times that I haul off and blow......

The only reason that I joined the Forum is to LEARN.  I am STILL thrilled at the knowledge and information that a lot of you have....real first hand....hands on knowledge of this time in History, that I don't have and never will.  I will never get to Russia....I am not educated....and now I am old and ill.  But I have been greatly interested in everything Romanov for about 20 years now and you have no idea how thrilled I was to find this wonderful website that Bob put together.  (I shall always be grateful to Bob)

So I am a lurker.....I know you guys don't dig lurkers, but this person can't help it OK???  I am here to LEARN....and I get frustrated when you guys fuss and fight and etc.....

For my two cents....I think the person who put up the cross is one of the "wonderful people" of the world and love him/her for being the only one to remember the IP in this way.  Being humble makes it all the more precious to me.

The Maple Room has always been my favorite room in the AP.  It is EXCITING!  How I wish they would reproduce it.

Offline ChristineM

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Re: The memorial cross at the AP
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2007, 04:41:44 PM »
Arleen - I think you've summed everything up in a thoughtful, considerate way.   I know how much you would love to visit Russia and the Alexander Palace in particular.   I also know that your infirmity precludes this ever happening.   I hope those who have had the good fortune to visit St Petersburg and Tsarskoe Selo will think for a second or two about someone whose desire to be there is every bit as keen as their's, but whose circumstances and health render this impossible.

As for being 'uneducated'... Arleen anyone who reads as avidly as you and who is as keen to learn about a huge variety of subjects, certainly is not 'uneducated'.    After all, learning is the essence of education.   You mustn't be so sore on yourself and those who have directed unkind remarks in your direction really need to pause and think about their justification.   One would hope for an apology.   We'll have to wait and see.

tsaria

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: The memorial cross at the AP
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2007, 08:37:26 AM »
Arleen, I am sorry I lost my temper with you, I just got very tired of people coming into discussions only to make disparaging remarks about the posters and nothing else (and it wasn't just you, there are others who do this fairly regularly). I am posting this here as opposed to PM because my other post was here too.

P.S. I am not apologizing to you because tsaria made her post above, I would have done it anyway.

Offline Arleen

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Re: The memorial cross at the AP
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2007, 09:38:47 AM »
Helen, I don't need apologies.....I guess I just want to be accepted.

Enough said everyone....

Arleen