Did Sophie Buxhoeveden Betray the IF?

[Forum Admin]

For what its worth,

Nicholas Markov (no relationship to Serge M.) was an avid monarchist working to assist the Imperial Family.  His deposition to Sokolov:
Some time later another officer left for Siberia, Serge Markov.  He had ties to Dehn and Vyroubova and was sent by their wishes and at their expense.  As our organization had little money, I took advantage of his leaving to task Markov to look up N**, to make contact with him and to inform us of his work.   ...

In spring 1918, officer S. Markov returned to Petrogard.  He told us that in Tyumen, Rasputin's son in law Soloviev was the head of Vyroubova's organization, and that he had been charged with the health of the Imperial Family and that the presence there of our officer N** was, to say the least, undesirable.  ...

S. Markov was someone I did not really know personally and so I followed the opinion of Dehn, it seemed to me upon his returm from Siberia that in hindsight: his tales inspired little confidence in me; he was not very convincing.  Personally, he gave me the impression of a young man audacious in excess, and greatly avaricious when it came to money.

(According to Victor Sokolov, one of the Vyroubova "team"): In the end of March or early April 1918 Markov returned.  He told us that in Tobolsk he met with enormous forces, entire cavalry regiments which were ready to save the Imperial Family at the first possible moment, and they occupied the central positions and that at the head of the entire matter was Soloviev.  ...  After some research, it was clearly and entirely under the orders of Soloviev that he had learned of what had gone one before and that he directed all of his movements.  I give absolutely no credence to the tales of Markov; they have no measure of truth."

I belive that Maria Rasputina was NOT in the Tobolsk region at the time? Matrona Rasputina made no mention of Bux. stealing money, and she was THERE. so how did Maria R. have knowledge of this, not being there, when her sister Matrona who WAS there says nothing?

This smells bad to me, I just don't buy the accuracy of the alleged sources.

[Sarushka]

I belive that Maria Rasputina was NOT in the Tobolsk region at the time? Matrona Rasputina made no mention of Bux. stealing money, and she was THERE. so how did Maria R. have knowledge of this, not being there, when her sister Matrona who WAS there says nothing?

Hang on -- I'm confused. I thought Rasputin had just two daughters: Maria (called Marochka by her father) and Varvara. How does Matrona fit into the Rasputin family tree?

[Alixz]

I am confused as well.  Right from the first, Massie, puts Soloviev as a schemer and an opportunist in N&A. But he makes it sound as if Soloviev was working alone and just taking advantage of the position he found himself in.

I believe that he used Maria Rasputin for her name and he knew that Alexandra would accept him completely and never question him about money or military strength or anything.

Since he has been shown to be a Bolshevik from the beginning, it is possible that he was working in cooperation with the local soviet to keep the IF in a state of incomplete knowledge and prevent anyone else from actually helping them or raising money and man power?

Was he smart enough to have set all of this up on his own?  He obviously had the connections to the soviet to "turn over" anyone to them whom he did not want to get through.  During that time, I would think that he had to have had close ties to the soviet himself to not come under suspicion.  They had to know that monarchists were sending money and people.  What better way to keep the monarchists out then by setting Soloviev up and have him keep tabs on everything for them.

I guess what I am asking is, did Soloviev come up with the idea and implement it on his own or was the whole thing a fabrication of someone else?  Could he have been part of a larger group who were mandated with keeping the IF (meaning Alix) with hope of rescue, but in reality were keeping everyone away?

Could Soloviev have received and/or rejected those who wanted to help the Romanovs, taken their money and kept it for himself without coming under the notice of the local soviet himself as a monarchist?  He almost had to be a double agent working with the soviet, but pretending to be working for the IF.  Otherwise wouldn't the local soviet have arrested him for conspiring and consorting with those who would free the IF?

Rasputin's name would have worked wonders with Alexandra but would mean "squat" to the soviet. 

I know that this thread is about Buxhoeveden and whether or not she took the money from Gibbes or in anyway conspired to save her own life by cooperating with the soviets, but Soloviev was brought into the discussion as well.

[helenazar]

Hang on -- I'm confused. I thought Rasputin had just two daughters: Maria (called Marochka by her father) and Varvara. How does Matrona fit into the Rasputin family tree?

Matriona is another nickname for Maria. Maria and Matriona are the same person.

[helenazar]

For what its worth,

Nicholas Markov (no relationship to Serge M.) was an avid monarchist working to assist the Imperial Family.  His deposition to Sokolov:
Some time later another officer left for Siberia, Serge Markov.  He had ties to Dehn and Vyroubova and was sent by their wishes and at their expense.  As our organization had little money, I took advantage of his leaving to task Markov to look up N**, to make contact with him and to inform us of his work.   ...

In spring 1918, officer S. Markov returned to Petrogard.  He told us that in Tyumen, Rasputin's son in law Soloviev was the head of Vyroubova's organization, and that he had been charged with the health of the Imperial Family and that the presence there of our officer N** was, to say the least, undesirable.  ...

S. Markov was someone I did not really know personally and so I followed the opinion of Dehn, it seemed to me upon his returm from Siberia that in hindsight: his tales inspired little confidence in me; he was not very convincing.  Personally, he gave me the impression of a young man audacious in excess, and greatly avaricious when it came to money.

(According to Victor Sokolov, one of the Vyroubova "team"): In the end of March or early April 1918 Markov returned.  He told us that in Tobolsk he met with enormous forces, entire cavalry regiments which were ready to save the Imperial Family at the first possible moment, and they occupied the central positions and that at the head of the entire matter was Soloviev.  ...  After some research, it was clearly and entirely under the orders of Soloviev that he had learned of what had gone one before and that he directed all of his movements.  I give absolutely no credence to the tales of Markov; they have no measure of truth."

So where does he say that Bux took the money from Soloviev? And what about the other people mentioned in FOTR, where did they make their statements?

[Sarushka]

Hang on -- I'm confused. I thought Rasputin had just two daughters: Maria (called Marochka by her father) and Varvara. How does Matrona fit into the Rasputin family tree?

Matriona is another nickname for Maria. Maria and Matriona are the same person.

Thanks. That's what I thought, but I was second-guessing myself for a minute there.

[helenazar]

I know that this thread is about Buxhoeveden and whether or not she took the money from Gibbes or in anyway conspired to save her own life by cooperating with the soviets, but Soloviev was brought into the discussion as well.

Well, yes, the reason Soloviev was brought into the discussion was because FOTR claims that he is the source for the information about Bux's betrayal, i.e. her taking the money that Soloviev collected for the rescue of the IF, so we are just trying to figure out where this information came from... I am not sure how all the other people fit it that FOTR mentions who allegedly corroborated this information, which is why I was asking someone who has the book to post the references... Thanks!

[helenazar]

Hang on -- I'm confused. I thought Rasputin had just two daughters: Maria (called Marochka by her father) and Varvara. How does Matrona fit into the Rasputin family tree?

Matriona is another nickname for Maria. Maria and Matriona are the same person.

Thanks. That's what I thought, but I was second-guessing myself for a minute there.

No prob, these Russian nickname variations can get rather confusing  .

[Alixz]

OK, here goes -

FOTR page 68;  "Before he left Petrograd, Soloviev apparently was given 200,000 rubles, collected by Count Paul von Benckendorff for the prisoners."  [source Bykov, October 17, 1927, in TsDOOSO f.41. op1,d. 129, see also memoirs of Tatiana Teumina on TsDOOSO, f 221,op.2, d. 848 Markov, 228-262; Kasvinov, 309-406.]

"In his book, Benkendorff did not reveal the name of the courier, simply writing that "the money reached its destination, thanks to the devotion and energy of X"  [source Benkendorff page 129]

" Maria Rasputin later recalled:  "Just before the Bolsheviks moved the capital, Boris was in Petrograd to collect a rather substantial sum for Their Majesties.  This he did and conveyed it into trusted hands."  [source Maria Rasputin, manuscript, in private hands in the United States]

" Soloviev was back in Tobolsk on February 21, when he turned over the 200,000 rubles to a certain "Mademoiselle X, a lady of the court," as Serge Markov called her.  This mysterious woman was, Markov said, ill at the time the Romanovs were originally sent to Tobolsk, arrived at a later date, but "the guards refused her entry to the Governor's House"  She lived in her own apartment in town" [source Markov 212]

"Markov clearly meant Baroness Sophie Buxhoeveden, the only "lady of the court" who had not joined the imperial family due to illness, who later came to Tobolsk; who was refused admission to the Governor's House' and who had her own apartment in the town." [no source]

page 69

"That Soloviev turned this money over to Buxhoeveden on February 21 is confirmed by four separate sources:  Soloviev, himself; Serge Markov; Maria Rasputin; and by Staff Captain Lepilin, Hermogen's envoy."  [source see Markov, 214-215, Maria Rasputin, manuscript in a private collection in the United States; Kasvinov, 403-405; Interrogation of NV Lepilin, November 17, 1918, by Kirsta, certified copy in author's collection.]

[Alixz]

And then:   FOTR  page 69:

Yet, Buxhoeveden did not hand over the money to Volkov as she had claimed.  On February 27, just six days after Soloviev gave Buxhoeveden the packages, the prisoners learned that as of March 1, they would all be put on ordinary soldiers' rations.  According to Kobylinsky, who had assumed responsibility for the Romanovs' finances, the move came just in time as, "by the beginning of March, all of the money previously sent had vanished, and no more arrived for us."  [source Kobylinsky, April 6-10, 1919 in SA, vol 3, doc. 29]

[Forum Admin]

Mea Maxima Culpa re: Matrona.  Was late and I was tired...

Sokolov (Nicholas not Victor) makes it clear that Soloviev was a Bolshevik agent.  Thought I posted where Sokolov had been promoted to Aide de Camp to a Bolshevik General.  It's clear to me at least, that Soloviev was set up as a double agent by the Bolsheviks.  Not involved enough before the Revolution to raise suspicion with the loyal Monarchists, but clearly a good party man.  What better way to A. prevent any ACTUAL rescue of the IF and B. raise some badly needed cash, than to allow the Monarchists to THINK rescue was possible so as to drain cash from them while actually thwart otherwise genuine attempts? Who better to gain access to the Vyroubova coterie of the wealthy than via Rasputin's daughter? Sokolov quotes extensively from Soloviev's personal diaries which he seized which expressly say that Soloviev pretty well despised Matrona Rasputina, finding her ugly, boorish, rude and petty.  Pretty clever plot actually. 

After doing this research, I just can't buy the FOTR clearly adduced assertion that Soloviev turned over a large sum of money to Bux, as at least three of the four cited "sources" are not reliable as they themselves were implicit in the scam plots in the first place (Soloviev, Rasputina, and Markov)

They also state that Buxhoeveden never "explained" the reason for the two middle of the night raids on her flat. Well, actually she DID, and all the authors needed to do was read "Left Behind" :
"Just after Yakovieff's arrival the Tobolsk town Soviet turned their attention to me. This took the form of a domiciliary visit, the first I had had since I went to my lodgings. At 3 A.M. I was awakened by a loud knocking. I jumped out of bed, and on opening the door was faced by a band of armed soldiers. I had read the placards posted up in the street, in which the population was warned always to ask to be shown the search warrants, as there were many Red guardsmen going about requisitioning things for their own use without the Soviet's saction. I asked the man who seemed the leader if there were not some mistake, and if he really had an order to search my rooms. With an ironical grin he produced a document in which I read that a domiciliary visit was ordered to take place at the citizeness Buxhoeveden's rooms.

"Should anything suspicious be found, the aforesaid citizeness should be immediately arrested and taken to gaol under armed escort." This sounded hopeful. Anything might displease these men, and naturally I had many harmless possessions to which they might take a dislike. For instance, I had many photographs of the Imperial family, and a photograph of even some distant relation of the Emperor's was always considered in itself a very counter-revolutionary symptom

.  please see: http://www.alexanderpalace.org/leftbehind/VI.html

Further, nobody else who was there seems to indicate Buxhoeveden HAD any money, Gibbes says she was as hard up for cash as he, and remember the un-repayed loan?  Volkov found her poor as a church mouse when he returned to Tobolsk... Left Behind certainly doesn't sound like she had any extra couple hundred thousand rubles stashed away somewhere.

Judge Judy time again: "If it doesn't make any sense, it can't be true..."

[Alixz]

   Just quoting the book, boss 

Who is Tatiana Teumina ?   

[Forum Admin]

OK, here goes -

FOTR page 68;  "Before he left Petrograd, Soloviev apparently was given 200,000 rubles, collected by Count Paul von Benckendorff for the prisoners."  [source Bykov, October 17, 1927, in TsDOOSO f.41. op1,d. 129, see also memoirs of Tatiana Teumina on TsDOOSO, f 221,op.2, d. 848 Markov, 228-262; Kasvinov, 309-406.]

"In his book, Benkendorff did not reveal the name of the courier, simply writing that "the money reached its destination, thanks to the devotion and energy of X"  [source Benkendorff page 129]
No question this happened. We now know that X was Serge Markov.

" Maria Rasputin later recalled:  "Just before the Bolsheviks moved the capital, Boris was in Petrograd to collect a rather substantial sum for Their Majesties.  This he did and conveyed it into trusted hands."  [source Maria Rasputin, manuscript, in private hands in the United States]
Why does this mean "trusted hands" was Bux.? I can just as easily interpret this to mean Serge Markov.


" Soloviev was back in Tobolsk on February 21, when he turned over the 200,000 rubles to a certain "Mademoiselle X, a lady of the court," as Serge Markov called her.  This mysterious woman was, Markov said, ill at the time the Romanovs were originally sent to Tobolsk, arrived at a later date, but "the guards refused her entry to the Governor's House"  She lived in her own apartment in town" [source Markov 212]

"Markov clearly meant Baroness Sophie Buxhoeveden, the only "lady of the court" who had not joined the imperial family due to illness, who later came to Tobolsk; who was refused admission to the Governor's House' and who had her own apartment in the town." [no source]
I have no quarrel that SOLOVIEV said this. Nor that he meant Bux.  BUT other than Soloviev's say-so, WHERE is the extrinsic proof that he really DID hand over one kopek to Bux.?  I don't see that anywhere yet.
page 69

"That Soloviev turned this money over to Buxhoeveden on February 21 is confirmed by four separate sources:  Soloviev, himself; Serge Markov; Maria Rasputin; and by Staff Captain Lepilin, Hermogen's envoy."  [source see Markov, 214-215, Maria Rasputin, manuscript in a private collection in the United States; Kasvinov, 403-405; Interrogation of NV Lepilin, November 17, 1918, by Kirsta, certified copy in author's collection.]

Soloviev. Totally un-believable as a source.  Maria R. ditto, she was equally in on the  plot with Soloviev. Markov: also an accomplice.  Where was Lepiln during all of this? Maybe Soloviev TOLD him he gave Bux the cash. Was he in the room at the time?


Yet, Buxhoeveden did not hand over the money to Volkov as she had claimed.  On February 27, just six days after Soloviev gave Buxhoeveden the packages, the prisoners learned that as of March 1, they would all be put on ordinary soldiers' rations.  According to Kobylinsky, who had assumed responsibility for the Romanovs' finances, the move came just in time as, "by the beginning of March, all of the money previously sent had vanished, and no more arrived for us."  [source Kobylinsky, April 6-10, 1919 in SA, vol 3, doc. 29]
Well, N. Sokolov proved the close ties betweel Soloviev and Yakovlev. What IF Soloviev only gave Bux. part of what was sent, the small part that Volkov confirmed getting, in the first place? It seems to me just as rational that the money "disappeared" in Soloviev's hands. We STILL only seem to have Soloviev's say-so that he gave the money to Buxhoeveden. Since Yakovlev and Soloviev were working together, as Sokolov proved, why is it not just as probably that Yakovlev ORDERED Bux.'s room searched to back up his buddy Soloviev's story? Am I the only one who smells a rat with Soloviev??

[helenazar]

FOTR page 68;  "Before he left Petrograd, Soloviev apparently was given 200,000 rubles, collected by Count Paul von Benckendorff for the prisoners."  [source Bykov, October 17, 1927, in TsDOOSO f.41. op1,d. 129, see also memoirs of Tatiana Teumina on TsDOOSO, f 221,op.2, d. 848 Markov, 228-262; Kasvinov, 309-406.]
"In his book, Benkendorff did not reveal the name of the courier, simply writing that "the money reached its destination, thanks to the devotion and energy of X"  [source Benkendorff page 129]

Ok, Soloviev was given the money... so far so good.

" Maria Rasputin later recalled:  "Just before the Bolsheviks moved the capital, Boris was in Petrograd to collect a rather substantial sum for Their Majesties.  This he did and conveyed it into trusted hands."  [source Maria Rasputin, manuscript, in private hands in the United States]

Here is where it starts getting a bit "shady". When did MR write this? "Trusted source"? Whose private hands? Who saw this manuscript? The authors and no one else? Is this one of those "we were shown this in secret but cannot reveal who the owner of the manuscript was"? A little too many of those types of "sources" for my taste. I am disregarding this one, unless it is published somewhere and can verified...

" Soloviev was back in Tobolsk on February 21, when he turned over the 200,000 rubles to a certain "Mademoiselle X, a lady of the court," as Serge Markov called her.  This mysterious woman was, Markov said, ill at the time the Romanovs were originally sent to Tobolsk, arrived at a later date, but "the guards refused her entry to the Governor's House"  She lived in her own apartment in town" [source Markov 212]
"Markov clearly meant Baroness Sophie Buxhoeveden, the only "lady of the court" who had not joined the imperial family due to illness, who later came to Tobolsk; who was refused admission to the Governor's House' and who had her own apartment in the town." [no source]

This one needs to be followed up on. Too many references in FOTR ended up saying something other than what the book claims they said, so we need to check exactly what Markov wrote in his original (what? - memoirs? book?).

page 69

"That Soloviev turned this money over to Buxhoeveden on February 21 is confirmed by four separate sources:  Soloviev, himself; Serge Markov; Maria Rasputin; and by Staff Captain Lepilin, Hermogen's envoy."  [source see Markov, 214-215, Maria Rasputin, manuscript in a private collection in the United States; Kasvinov, 403-405; Interrogation of NV Lepilin, November 17, 1918, by Kirsta, certified copy in author's collection.]

Again, where did Soloviev confirm this? I think I am missing this...

Markov - needs to be verified in the original publication (?)

Maria Rasputin - no published source - private manuscript- who owns it? seems only the author saw it - cannot be verified.

"Kasvinov, 403-405" - what is this source for?

"Certified copy in author's collection" - cannot be verified.

[helenazar]

BTW, thanks for posting the quotes, Alixz.